placing Red Action then the IWCA theorethically

[Cl@ss W@r]

No i don't think any of that is particularly useful tbh. I'm looking at placing RA in a wider THEORETHICAL context. I have loads of intra-left comparison and critique, i need some big guns writing books about the death of industrial class or whatever.

This is not for my own interest or information.

can you think of any theorethical trend they fit in? Bullshit is completely acceptable.

The IWCA, like a lot of anarchists do not have theory, they do not know what it is. You cannot place RA theoretically cos they haven't read more than Marx or Engels, so that would be the place to put them - old Marxists who haven't escaped left assumptions. They remain, what they were, which is part of the old hierarchical left - to go beyond that they have to break out of old left assumptions and political practice which they have failed to do. The 'all else has failed - go it alone rubbish' which another poster identified.

Incidentally, they are a particular subculture of the wider left and they have also failed to break out of it, which is why they spend so much time on websites these days rather than participating in class struggle.

 

[butchersapron]

****

 

[Cl@ss W@r]

absolutely key to RA was the idea of w/c autonomy .. they argued you needed a w/c run left NOT one created and run by the middle class as is the case of most left groups ( and @ groups )

did you read We Are Red Action?

I find it quite contradictory to argue this and quote Marx favourably, when Marx was not 'purely working class himself'.

 

[dennisr]

I find it quite contradictory to argue this and quote Marx favourably, when Marx was not 'purely working class himself'.

is that cos you are an idiot?

 

[Red O]

is that cos you are an idiot?

It's cos he's...

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Good news, Attica is the only poster for whom I have much respect on here.

 

[mk12]

He's an obsessive loon.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Just misunderstood. The anarchists don't like him, 'cos he sees through the shallowness of their praxis and its irrelevance to the w/c

 

[mk12]

Is this a joke?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I thought it was against the rules on here to have multiple accounts

 

[Udo Erasmus]

No, seriously Attica has an ability to think outside the box sadly lacking here. To be honest, I have know idea why he attracts hostility. A very wise man.

 

[Nigel]

On a personal basis i always thought that he was alright.
Although he was always up his own arse

 

[Louis MacNeice]

No, seriously Attica has an ability to think outside the box sadly lacking here. To be honest, I have know idea why he attracts hostility. A very wise man.

I remember George Orwells quote about those 'who do not like the smell of the working class' - a lot of working class people smell, such is life, get over it. People who work hard tend not to be hygenically clean, and also part of the class is more likely to smell because of its work and lifestyle - such as agricultural workers, sewage workers, fishermen, lorry drivers, chemical workers and so on. Those for whom the capitalist system has not worked; the homeless, druggies and so on will also tend to be in a difficult and smelly position.​

Wise and innovative words indeed.

Louis MacNeice

 

[The39thStep]

I think Attica has made one of the biggest contributions to the rental of rooms previously unrented and the trestle table industry in the history of the working class.The North East probably has the most well read and book owning third pool in the world.

 

[audiotech]

The North East probably has the most well read and book owning third pool in the world.

'Third pool'?

 

[The39thStep]

As in......

We have some toes in the anarchist pool and some in the Labour movement. We are also conscious that a third pool needs to be built, and that is the area of autonomy, but that is already a few decades ...

 

[newbie]

If, as seems to be the claim, IWCA isn't Leninist or DC, why is it so shadowy? What does it hide names of the officers, why aren't the debates at the AGM published? Why shouldn't non members know who is involved and what is discussed?

This is none of my business, of course, but it's a pertinent question on a thread about their theoretical position.

 

[The39thStep]

If, as seems to be the claim, IWCA isn't Leninist or DC, why is it so shadowy? What does it hide names of the officers, why aren't the debates at the AGM published? Why shouldn't non members know who is involved and what is discussed?

This is none of my business, of course, but it's a pertinent question on a thread about their theoretical position.

Instead of raising some puerile conspiracy theory go to the website ,there is plenty of info there. Ask for a introductory pack and you will get loads of info.

 

[laptop]

If I remember it was the case that the police just turned around and said, Right, no more paper sales or political activity from anybody...

As I remember it, it was the Sunday after the people who insisted they were "ex-RA" steamed in.

The Inspector in charge told me that they'd nicked all the BNP off the District Line at Mile End. Banged them up and then spent six hours losing the paperwork before releasing them. Most reprehensible.

Why was I talking to the Inspector? Because he kept asking to borrow my front room on Sundays and I kept saying "no".

Hang on - I can't remember his name at the moment, but was it Tariq Ghaffur of recent Hate Mail fame?




Sorry I can't help with the theoretical question in the OP.

A guess. Do any of the RA/IWCA writings reference Saul Alinsky? Did they perhaps go back to the basics of organisation, sidestepping questions about ideology?

 

[newbie]

Instead of raising some puerile conspiracy theory go to the website ,there is plenty of info there. Ask for a introductory pack and you will get loads of info.

No conspiracy theory, just an attempt to understand. I've been referred to the website plenty of times, but it doesn't answer the question. Are you saying that an introductory pack does give the names of officers and outlines of debates at AGM? If so why isn't that info on the website for all to see?

 

[butchersapron]

Come on, there's a clear hint of a conspiracy to hide a leninist or Democratioc centralist approach in your first post. What on earth does that 'If' mean otherwise? And it's not the first time you've tried this either.

If, as seems to be the claim, IWCA isn't Leninist or DC, why is it so shadowy? What does it hide names of the officers, why aren't the debates at the AGM published? Why shouldn't non members know who is involved and what is discussed?

 

[love detective]

like all political parties, the information you seem so keen on is available within the accounts lodged with the electoral commission

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/party-finance/database-of-registers

 

[Louis MacNeice]

No conspiracy theory, just an attempt to understand. I've been referred to the website plenty of times, but it doesn't answer the question. Are you saying that an introductory pack does give the names of officers and outlines of debates at AGM? If so why isn't that info on the website for all to see?

The neccessary officers are on the electoral commission website, the results of agm discussions are contained in the policy statements and the practice detailed on the national and local websites....oh apologies I was looking at the Community Action Party...hang on a minute though.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[tbaldwin]

As I remember it, it was the Sunday after the people who insisted they were "ex-RA" steamed in.

I was the only x ra member there. Nobdoy insisted they were x RA....Though most were x AFA.

 

[newbie]

Come on, there's a clear hint of a conspiracy to hide a leninist or Democratioc centralist approach in your first post. What on earth does that 'If' mean otherwise? And it's not the first time you've tried this either.

tried this? I've certainly asked this question before, and I'm asking it again because I've not had an answer.

But perhaps I shouldn't have phrased it as I did, simply because the thread contains claims that DC and leninist baggage has been left behind. Perhaps it has, and perhaps open politics has nothing to do with such an approach. Perhaps there's some other reason why an ordinary little political association should keep secret the details of discussions and delegates.

 

[butchersapron]

And again.

 

[newbie]

The neccessary officers are on the electoral commission website, the results of agm discussions are contained in the policy statements and the practice detailed on the national and local websites....oh apologies I was looking at the Community Action Party...hang on a minute though.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

2 names on the EC website does not equate to openness. Nor do carefully constructed statements (the results of discussions). I don't understand the last part of your post at all.

 

[newbie]

come on butch say something useful. I've asked a question about the politics of a political party, why not seek to answer it instead of focussing on the words I used? Do you really defend political secrecy?

 

[butchersapron]

"Perhaps there's some other reason why an ordinary little political association should keep secret the details of discussions and delegates." Because it's hiding some dark secret and you're digging for it. Year after year. Maybe the secret lies within newbie?

No you haven't anyway, you've asked an organisational question that you yourself admit had nothing to do with you whilst implying dark motivations. So no. Nothing doing. If you'd like to make minimal inquiries to show good faith - i.e contact the IWCA then....

 

[newbie]

why do I need to show good faith? what is there to hide- look if I want to know about the political leadership and discussions within other parties I simply go look at their websites. Many invite the press to their AGMs, most have some sort of political leadership- NEC or whatever- whose membership is publicly available to both supporter and opponent.

Choosing to keep these things secret is not an organisational issue, it's a political one.