Pensioner arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

[Magnus McGinty]

Why not state your position instead of this fucking pathetic pretense at questioning?

I haven’t seen much evidence of public opinion being divided on this.
My position is clear, I’m assuming you haven’t read the thread then.

 

[bemused]

At this point can't they just be banned them from coming within 1km of his house?

 

[Wilf]

Jesus Christ, this thread is getting more and more Daily Mail by the minute.
It just feels like an excuse for ‘chav’ bashing now. What’s next, single mothers? Have we covered travellers enough yet? Laughing at their fucking ugg boots etc Surely we’re better than this.

Yes he and some of his family have done awful things but there’s a lot of hateful stuff being said here that feels far bigger than being targeted at the bloke who actually burgled the house.

This. The ugg boots thing was pretty shit, but we've had posters wishing an overdose on them since then, along with cutting their benefits and evicting them. Fucking hell. Shouldn't be that difficult to say the original burglar was a predatory cunt and that some of his family have been the same over the years without resorting to this beneath the line shite. Those involved were predatory cunts full stop, but not because they were part of a social group that this killing seems to have given people permission to express their contempt of.

 

[coley]

Flowers left for burglar 'an insult'
Not me, honestly

 

[coley]

Is it?

Possibly divided? certainly not "equally"

 

[coley]

At this point can't they just be banned them from coming within 1km of his house?

The difficulty is identifying the "they"

 

[Wilf]

I dunno. Check the video on this link.

Memorial to Hither Green burglar repeatedly desecrated

Nice to see the press in pole position to film his 'desecration of the shrine'. I'm not sure where a beanie hat sits in the hierarchy of clothes, but he did seem to be going equipped, with scissors.

 

[Wilf]

Seriously trying to put myself a little and more honestly closer to this...My mum wakes up and finds a couple of burglars in her house, is threatened/intimidated by one of them who is armed with a screwdriver which can be used to stab and wound, they scuffle, she fights back and stabs one of them...they die whilst fleeing. Tributes go up to the burglar near my mum's house, my mum can no longer live there, is being threatened and her place is boarded up. The story is all over the news public opinion divided etc.


My mum would now be homeless, traumatised, under threat of death and having to start again elsewhere...because someone burgled her home....

Hmmm....

Me too. I've just left my mum at the weekend to go home 100 miles away. She's increasingly frail and has had attempted scammers before. It's one of the things I worry about when I can't get over there. ASB more generally is a real problem. But portraying ASB as simply coming from 'those sort of people' is the wrong starting point for even beginning to think about solutions.

Last sentence not aimed at you Rutita1 of course, but at the thread.

 

[Wilf]

No doubt local florists are behind this latest outrage: 'somebody pulled 'em down again? Yeah, sorry to hear that, wanna buy some more?'

Wow, that was literally true:

Flowers left for burglar 'an insult'

The bouquets have been repeatedly taken down by a man who called it an "insult" to Mr Osborn-Brooks.

A man indentifying himself as Cecil Coley said he first removed the flowers overnight on Monday after becoming "infuriated" by the tributes.
He said: "It was a residential area they were placing flowers on. It was inappropriate, and the guy deserves no tribute."
Cecil Coley is also the name of a 72-year-old florist who was arrested on suspicion of murder after he stabbed an armed intruder to death in 2011. He was later released without charge.

 

[keybored]

it's common sense

I've spotted the real DM reader here.

 

[coley]

This. The ugg boots thing was pretty shit, but we've had posters wishing an overdose on them since then, along with cutting their benefits and evicting them. Fucking hell. Shouldn't be that difficult to say the original burglar was a predatory cunt and that some of his family have been the same over the years without resorting to this beneath the line shite. Those involved were predatory cunts full stop, but not because they were part of a social group this killing seems to have given people permission to express their contempt of.

Fair comment, but "social group" ? Bit of a blunderbuss approximation? I belong to a "social group" ( as I suspect do many others on here) that has many 'wronguns' in there, it's called humanity.
The WC has its fair share, as does all other groups, but the public reaction is based on 'predation' of the strong on the weak, at the level most of us have, in common experience, in our neighbourhoods( apologies to those in leafy suburbs who don't get to experience these problems, due to higher policing and council spending)
Bankers, politicians et al, most of us would like to see them get their 'just desserts'
But this case 'comes home' as this old bloke and his wife ( or in the current term 'vulnerable adults' ) could be, now, or in the future 'one of us' or a friend or a relative.
These people, low life scumbags (other adjectives are available)...thrive in certain areas because the police and politicians (of all stripes) allow it, rather than spend money on addressing the problem, out of sight, out of mind.
As an abstract thought, these 'problem families' are often found in areas where HB rates are highest! I.E., they don't pay rent or council tax and yet they expect a police presence!!?

 

[Wilf]

Flowergate, aka Flowerstomp, is now at phase 3 (with the usual apologies for the source):
Dead burglar Henry Vincent's friends hit back at vigilante | Daily Mail Online

 

[coley]

Flowergate, aka Flowerstomp, is now at phase 3 (with the usual apologies for the source):
Dead burglar Henry Vincent's friends hit back at vigilante | Daily Mail Online

No doubt the "source" would obviously have used the most inflammatory photos available .....but putting flowers in memorial, with a yard of tab hinging oot of yer gob....

 

[cupid_stunt]

I've spotted the real DM reader here.

What?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

It's become a macabre spectator sport, hasnt it. Friends and family of the crim put up flowers and tributes, which are then pulled down by local residents and other people. Then more flowers are put up by the family, which are again torn down. All watched and encouraged by the press pack.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's become a macabre spectator sport, hasnt it. Friends and family of the crim put up flowers and tributes, which are then pulled down by local residents and other people. Then more flowers are put up by the family, which are again torn down. All watched and encouraged by the press pack.

Who's winning?

 

[not a trot]

Who's winning?

Local florist.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It's become a macabre spectator sport, hasnt it. Friends and family of the crim put up flowers and tributes, which are then pulled down by local residents and other people. Then more flowers are put up by the family, which are again torn down. All watched and encouraged by the press pack.

It is that, but it's also a more fundamental process (already discussed on here) about the marking of territory, initmidation attempts and resistance by residents.

Two other points:

1. The perp didn't die in the house or the street. A genuine 'memorial' would be cited where he carked it surely.
2. The police seem to have adopted an attitude of wanting everyone to go away so they can get back to whatever it is they do. They are neutral, slightly irritated, bystanders in the process.

 

[Dogsauce]

How long until some EDL/BF types try to capitalise on this like they have been doing with paedo gangs? If the family is identified as an ‘outsider’ group like travellers then it’s a ripe situation for stirring up hate against travellers in general.

 

[existentialist]

I think BF and the like prefer to target groups who don't look like they could fight back, on the whole.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I think BF and the like prefer to target groups who don't look like they could fight back, on the whole.

Aye, that's the last thing they need, they are too busy fighting each other.

 

[not-bono-ever]

the DM have hit middle England rage fury Klondike with this incident . bloody hell

 

[Smokeandsteam]

How long until some EDL/BF types try to capitalise on this like they have been doing with paedo gangs? If the family is identified as an ‘outsider’ group like travellers then it’s a ripe situation for stirring up hate against travellers in general.

Spot on. Parachute in. A protest march 'in solidarity' with residents. A bit of leafleting. Video it and stick it on social media. Job done.

They could even guarantee the SWP and fellow traveller (excuse the pun) types would oppose it as 'racist' therefore further fixing in popular consciousness who is on which side.

 

[Wilf]

According to my friends at the Daily Mail, we are now into phase 4 of Flowerstomp. 'Several women turned up at 2.10 a.m.' to reinstall the cards and flowers. Hither Green awaits today's Flowerstomp hero to restore the balance of the universe. Another round of this and we go to extra time and penalties.

 

[Wilf]

Local florist.

The flower thing was my joke. Unless you donate some of the likes received to a charity of my choice, you'll be hearing from my solicitor. Disappointed.

 

[Wilf]

Fair comment, but "social group" ? Bit of a blunderbuss approximation? I belong to a "social group" ( as I suspect do many others on here) that has many 'wronguns' in there, it's called humanity.
The WC has its fair share, as does all other groups, but the public reaction is based on 'predation' of the strong on the weak, at the level most of us have, in common experience, in our neighbourhoods( apologies to those in leafy suburbs who don't get to experience these problems, due to higher policing and council spending)
Bankers, politicians et al, most of us would like to see them get their 'just desserts'
But this case 'comes home' as this old bloke and his wife ( or in the current term 'vulnerable adults' ) could be, now, or in the future 'one of us' or a friend or a relative.
These people, low life scumbags (other adjectives are available)...thrive in certain areas because the police and politicians (of all stripes) allow it, rather than spend money on addressing the problem, out of sight, out of mind.
As an abstract thought, these 'problem families' are often found in areas where HB rates are highest! I.E., they don't pay rent or council tax and yet they expect a police presence!!?

The bit about a social group was in relation to the way the family have been criticised/language used. In a rarity, I think everybody on this thread would agree the burglar and those of his relatives who targeted the elderly and vulnerable were vile cunts. But some of the comments about their clothes or withdrawing benefits and social housing echoed the way the Mail and others portrayed chavs and the rest. Not only unnecessary but also inaccurate. In some ways, their behaviour puts them into a wider group of parasites such as debt collectors, slum landlords and others who prey on the working class, though that set itself isn't a social group. They are what they are, exploiters and parasites, but, at a personal level, not as part of a social group.

Another point on Flowergate, I take the point others have made about territory and threat (really) and no doubt the OB are monitoring social media to watch out for the almost inevitable revenge threats there will be. But from what I've seen of the flower thing, it seems to be largely women just doing what people do when a death takes place - placing tributes. I find the whole shrine thing a bit mawkish to be honest, but this seems to be nothing too out of the ordinary. Also, without having much sympathy for the family in as much as several members have been involved in parasitic scamming, the flower thing is also complicated symbolically. Part of it is about threat and visibility, but it also indicates powerlessness in that there's not really much they can do about their loss. Not much sympathy with many members of the family, but it's still just the usual grieving process.

 

[MickiQ]

According to my friends at the Daily Mail, we are now into phase 4 of Flowerstomp. 'Several women turned up at 2.10 a.m.' to reinstall the cards and flowers. Hither Green awaits today's Flowerstomp hero to restore the balance of the universe. Another round of this and we go to extra time and penalties.

I hope you realise that you have made me visit the Daily Fail website and are suitably ashamed of yourself, That is a very long article that even managed to throw in a reference to how it will affect house prices in the area.
You do get the impression that a serious confrontation is brewing which will probably end in another stabbing and that the Fail is doing its best to stir the pot up.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hope you realise that you have made me visit the Daily Fail website and are suitably ashamed of yourself, That is a very long article that even managed to throw in a reference to how it will affect house prices in the area.
You do get the impression that a serious confrontation is brewing which will probably end in another stabbing and that the Fail is doing its best to stir the pot up.

it sells papers

 

[Wilf]

Not sure of the point I'm making here, maybe there is no logical point, but I was just struck by this. Yes, of course, the burglar is the author of his own downfall and to some extent it looks like a family business. But amid all the stuff about fucking ugg boots and stopping their benefits, the grief is genuine. To save people going to the Mail site, I'll quote it:

Elvina Lee, who said she was Vincent's first cousin, told MailOnline: 'This is the best place for these flowers to be. I don't know what's wrong with these people (who dismantled them)…I think they're scum.

Discussing Vincent, she said: 'He was like a brother to me, he loved his family and his three babies. He wasn't a murderer, he wasn't a rapist, they're putting (sic) him as a monster. Murderer? The murderer is over there.'

Henry Vincent's aunt, was one on the seven women who put up the shrine and speaking at her home in St Paul's Cray, near Orpington, Kent today said: 'In Lewisham there's burglaries every five minutes and I don't see anybody else getting condemned.

'He's got three little daughters, they have done nothing to the world. They are innocent, like him here (she points to a small boy).

'They are even condemning them, it's not fair. Why rip all his flowers down? Why do that?

His auntie added: 'We didn't go and put anything on the old man's house we put it across the road where he died.

'From where he went to where he died, we did not go near the old man's house, we don't want to know about the old man, to me, do you want the truth? He's no f***ing pushover.

'There is none there mate, there is none there. This flower business has got to stop.'

She: 'They shouldn't have been there, fair enough, but somebody has actually died here and they have left a family of three little daughters.

'How would you like it if your daughter's crying for her dad? You're the uncle sitting there watching it and they are calling the children scum.

'These children go to school, they can go to college, what is wrong we these people?

'They are children and grieving for their dad and he was a good dad to them.'

 

[Wilf]

In my role as urban's very own daily mail correspondent, I can now tell you that Eamon Holmes has now called for the floral tributes to be bulldozed each day. To be honest, that's a game changer - await further updates.