Pensioner arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

[scifisam]

What other possible version is there?

Did a 78 year old man go out into the street, after midnight, and drag two other men, one of whom happened to be armed with a screwdriver, into his house, with the intent of killing one of them?

Have you even read the thread?

 

[Spymaster]

What other possible version is there?

Did a 78 year old man go out into the street, after midnight, and drag two other men, one of whom happened to be armed with a screwdriver, into his house, with the intent of killing one of them?

How do the cops know he didn't know the dead guy? Did he have previous beef with him and invite him round to kill him? Was it an argument between friends that went tits up? Has he ever stabbed someone to death before ... etc etc ?

There are loads of other considerations and circumstances that need to be excluded. I for one would be exceedingly pissed off at the OB if they turned up to possible murder scenes, took them at face value and immediately released the potential murderer. So would you and all the people who are moaning about this.

 

[cupid_stunt]

He didn’t need to be arrested or detained for the police to carry out any enquiries.

It is normal for an arrest in such circumstances, because killing someone is a serious matter, and there's nothing in UK that allows anyone to stab anyone else as a legal right. However, the law recognises the reality of self-defence and allows it to be used as a mitigating defence, but the existence self-defence has to be established by an investigation, and considered by the CPS.

Blimey, I wish I got the solicitor, I had this conversation with the other morning, to have written all this in an e-mail, so I could just copy & paste it.

What if the cause of death had been cardiac arrest?

Still potentially murder, if the heart attack was the result of the stabbing. The law used to allow charges of murder up to 1 year & 1 day after 'an event', but I think that limit has been lifted.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I shall have to dig them out, and I am pissed, musiced out, and tired - they were in the Telegraph article linked to earlier in the thread. Essentially, they were minimising his role in the thing, and being very sorry that he'd been killed. I picked up undertones of unfairness that it should have happened - the sort of position that can, with a goodly dose of righteous indignation, turn into resentment against the person who was responsible for the killing (OK, we all know that that person was the burglar, but it didn't feel like the family member thought so). If I find it, I'll post the link and a quote.

Only other scumbags would think he'd been hard done by.

You did read the link upthread which describes how this family has done jail time for theft by deception against elderly people on a massive scale? The scrote that was killed did time twice for that.

I take no pleasure in the fact a man died, but I'm not mourning his passing either.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Have you even read the thread?

Yes, did you?

 

[Sasaferrato]

How do the cops know he didn't know the dead guy? Did he have previous beef with him, invite him round and stab him? Was it an argument between friends that went tits up? Has he ever stabbed someone to death before?

There are loads of other considerations and circumstances that need to be excluded. I for one would be exceedingly pissed off at the OB if they turned up to potential murder scenes, took them at face value and immediately released a potential murderer. So would you and all the people who are moaning about this.

Oh, possible I suppose. Possibility of a magnitude of Bigfoot being captured today, but possible.

 

[Gromit]

Oh, possible I suppose. Possibility of a magnitude of Bigfoot being captured today, but possible.

Not unfeasible. There was those two women who invited a 'vulnerable' person to a house and killed him as they shared a fantasy about murdering someone and wanted to do it.

 

[existentialist]

Where did I say it was Spymaster splitting hairs?

OK, my apologies, you didn't. You admitted that you were doing it yourself.

 

[likesfish]

No further action was the right result the police need to do their Job and been seen to do it pity somebody died but thats the risk you take

 

[existentialist]

Only other scumbags would think he'd been hard done by.

You did read the link upthread which describes how this family has done jail time for theft by deception against elderly people on a massive scale? The scrote that was killed did time twice for that.

I take no pleasure in the fact a man died, but I'm not mourning his passing either.

Yes, they almost certainly are scumbags, but that was the point - it's scumbags that tend to get all up tight about concepts like "honour" and "revenge", and it's more likely to be that kind of person who decides to start a vendetta against the innocent victim "who killed are Henry".

 

[Spymaster]

Oh, possible I suppose. Possibility of a magnitude of Bigfoot being captured today, but possible.

Don’t be daft.

 

[xenon]

A fire extinguisher and a mention of a baseball bat does not equate to "Hardman weapon talk"

No, it doesn't.

When I posted that, the thread looked like it was going down the tedious and slightly pathetic route blokes talking about how will they would use baseball bats, how they’ve got a chainsaw under the bed et cetera.
And FFS are people still saying he shouldn’t have been arrested. You thick twats.

 

[scifisam]

Yes, did you?

Yes, which is why I know people including me had already posted multiple alternate possibilities for the way the burglar died. It always seemed much more likely that it was a burglary gone wrong but it wasn't the only possibility in the world and it's stupid to pretend so.

 

[ddraig]

When I posted that, the thread looked like it was going down the tedious and slightly pathetic route blokes talking about how will they would use baseball bats, how they’ve got a chainsaw under the bed et cetera.
And FFS are people still saying he shouldn’t have been arrested. You thick twats.

was it decided which urb was the hardest and most tooled up tho!?!

 

[Spymaster]

was it decided which urb was the hardest and most tooled up tho!?!

I reckon that would be likesfish.

He’s ex-army but he doesn’t like to talk about it.

 

[kenny g]

If you were tooling up your house it would be remarkably stupid to permanently record the fact that your fire extinguisher, bat and maglight collection had not been bought for games of nocturnal fire baseball but were rather there in wait to be propelled into an uninvited visitor's skull.

 

[agricola]

If you were tooling up your house it would be remarkably stupid to permanently record the fact that your fire extinguisher, bat and maglight collection had not been bought for games of nocturnal fire baseball but were rather there in wait to be propelled into an uninvited visitor's skull.

Not really - you could have actual swords in your house, specifically for defence against burglars, and it wouldn't be an offence to have or to use them as you intended and advertised that they would be used (provided that it was actually in self defence).

Obviously you would have to get said items into the house in the first place though, which would be an offence. The only loophole would be to have your own forge.

 

[xenon]

I reckon that would be likesfish.

He’s ex army but he doesn’t like to talk about it.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I purchased my fire extinguisher at the same time as my fire blanket, for the sole purpose of lumping & killing a burglar, before wrapping-up the body for disposal.

 

[xenon]

Reminds me, I keep meaning to get a fire extinguisher. A CO2 one. I would be a bit scared to use it, for its intended purposes, they’re loud as fuck.

 

[scifisam]

Not really - you could have actual swords in your house, specifically for defence against burglars, and it wouldn't be an offence to have or to use them as you intended and advertised that they would be used (provided that it was actually in self defence).

Obviously you would have to get said items into the house in the first place though, which would be an offence. The only loophole would be to have your own forge.

You are allowed to carry swords in public if you have a good reason, and I'm pretty sure that transporting it from the shop to your house would count. Or you could just buy one online.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You are allowed to carry swords in public if you have a good reason, and I'm pretty sure that transporting it from the shop to your house would count. Or you could just buy one online.

It would have to be concealed I think. Not sure if it’s a specific crime for it not to be, or just because it’ll get you reported or what. I got my collar felt for walking down the street with a hammer once. Cops just said it should be in a bag or something.

 

[Cid]

Still potentially murder, if the heart attack was the result of the stabbing. The law used to allow charges of murder up to 1 year & 1 day after 'an event', but I think that limit has been lifted.

Yes, in 1996. The law works on causation, in a case like this you'd apply the 'but for' test; but for the defendant's actions, would the result have occurred. If the victim had a weak heart you apply the thin skull rule; the defendant takes the victim as they find them... Even if the defendant has no knowledge of the weak heart (or thin skull).

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yes, in 1996. The law works on causation, in a case like this you'd apply the 'but for' test; but for the defendant's actions, would the result have occurred. If the victim had a weak heart you apply the thin skull rule; the defendant takes the victim as they find them... Even if the defendant has no knowledge of the weak heart (or thin skull).

You also take the fact he was burgling a property into account. Stress brought about from his own actions could have brought on the cardiac arrest.

 

[cupid_stunt]

You also take the fact he was burgling a property into account. Stress brought about from his own actions could have brought on the cardiac arrest.

Blimey, mate, you are grasping at straws.

 

[twentythreedom]

Just back from B&Q with hammers, an axe, a nail gun and a stiffy

 

[likesfish]

so has the shrine of flowers made an appearance yet with the tear-stained family claiming he was a loveable rogue yet.
i do have a pistol crossbow in my bedroom but alas no bolts for it

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Blimey, mate, you are grasping at straws.

I’m not. I’m pointing out nuances as opposed to rolling over and sucking cop dick.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

You also take the fact he was burgling a property into account. Stress brought about from his own actions could have brought on the cardiac arrest.

?!?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

It’s really hard to cardiac arrest through panic/stress, I have tried