Pensioner arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

[scifisam]

I never expected to take long.
I presumed the investigation went like this:
Was the screwdriver brought by the burglar or not.
It doesn't match any screwdriver set in said house.
Double-check. Nope.
Defensive wounds ? Yes.
Definitely not self inflicted. Expert says no.

Case closed.

Well, we don't know if that's how it actually went down - it was probably a little more complicated especially considering there was another burglar involved - and it probably takes a bit longer to do all that than to type it up on a messageboard.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Mike isn't in Dad's Army.

No, but he looks like he should have been

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I don't know, judging by some comments some people dream of the day they can corner an intruder in their house and stab the shit out of them.

Nah, that's silly, they've been presented with a situation where a nefarious character breaks in wielding a screwdriver and they are saying what they would do. That doesn't mean they want it to happen, and they also realise it's words and bravado, god knows I was only half serious when I said I would totes go full neeson, my words are not deeds like

 

[Wilf]

It's the slippery slope that worries me. All over the country pensioners will now be on Amazon buying Kalashnikovs and samurai swords.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I don't know, judging by some comments some people dream of the day they can corner an intruder in their house and stab the shit out of them.

The fucking state of this.

‘Corner an intruder’ - a struggle over a screwdriver carried by the perp ends with him getting a stab wound. The pensioner has defensive bruising

‘Stab the shit’ - no information on anything more than one stab wound

‘Dream of the day’ - point me to one poster ‘dreaming’ of being woken in the night by two people in their house tooled up.

This thread is abysmal

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

It's the slippery slope that worries me. All over the country pensioners will now be on Amazon buying Kalashnikovs and samurai swords.

I'll raise it with all the homes i work at next week- SUPERVISED Ipad usage!

 

[Mrs D]

The fucking state of this.

‘Corner an intruder’ - a struggle over a screwdriver carried by the perp ends.

‘Stab the shit’ - no information on anything more than one stab wound

‘Dream of the day’ - point me to one poster ‘dreaming’ of being woken in the night by two people in their house tooled up.

This thread is abysmal

Does everyone on this site deliberately misinterpret posts to sustain an argument?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Does everyone on this site deliberately misinterpret posts to sustain an argument?

Urban would be dead if not

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Does everyone on this site deliberately misinterpret posts to sustain an argument?

Yeah apologies, Bemusing synthesised the arguments on this thread perfectly

 

[Gromit]

Does everyone on this site deliberately misinterpret posts to sustain an argument?

Yes every burglar does it to give Urban an argument

 

[Mrs D]

Yes every burglar does it to give Urban an argument

I’ve burgled twice, both times I was a teenager and legally a child.

 

[Spymaster]

I’ve burgled twice, both times I was a teenager and legally a child.

Who did you burgle?

 

[cupid_stunt]

BBC: Police say he faces no further action.

As expected, also worth noting...

Det Ch Insp Harding said: "While there might be various forms of debate about which processes should be used in cases such as this, it was important that the resident was interviewed by officers under the appropriate legislation; not only for the integrity of our investigation but also so that his personal and legal rights were protected."

Common sense all round.

Now give the guy a medal for bravely.

 

[mx wcfc]

As expected, also worth noting...



Common sense all round.

Now give the guy a medal for bravely.

Police bollocks all round rather. Whatever the legalistic bollocks the worst he should have been charged with was manslaughter, rather than terrifying the guy with a murder charge and keeping him in. Useless Police fuckwits.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Police bollocks all round rather. Whatever the legalistic bollocks the worst he should have been charged with was manslaughter, rather than terrifying the guy with a murder charge and keeping him in. Useless Police fuckwits.

When someone is killed as a result of the direct actions of another it is normal to arrest them for murder, after the investigation and it comes to charging then it often gets dropped to manslaughter, that decision is taken by the CPS.

 

[scifisam]

As expected, also worth noting...



Common sense all round.

Now give the guy a medal for bravely.

Yeah. By legally arresting him and going through the due process they've probably protected him from legal harm in the future. If anyone says "who knows, maybe... [something or other bad against the householder]" they've probably got evidence to refute that.

 

[William of Walworth]

This thread is abysmal

I agree entirely, but for nowhere near the same (apparant) reason as you.

 

[8ball]

Does everyone on this site deliberately misinterpret posts to sustain an argument?

We would waste a lot less bandwidthz were this not the case.

 

[bemused]

Yeah. By legally arresting him and going through the due process they've probably protected him from legal harm in the future. If anyone says "who knows, maybe... [something or other bad against the householder]" they've probably got evidence to refute that.

You'd be very silly to consent to a voluntary interview under caution. Once you are arrested you're covered PACE and have a range of rights and protections.

 

[bemused]

Police bollocks all round rather. Whatever the legalistic bollocks the worst he should have been charged with was manslaughter, rather than terrifying the guy with a murder charge and keeping him in. Useless Police fuckwits.

They didn't charge him.

 

[kenny g]

By all accounts the burglar was a scumbag who did time for his specialism in life which appears to be extracting valuables from old people in their own home. I haven't bothered reading the whole thread but arrests need to be justified by PACE code G https://www.justice-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/doj/pace-code-g-2015-.pdf

2.3 A constable may arrest without warrant in relation to any offence (see Notes 1 and 1A) anyone: • who is about to commit an offence or is in the act of committing an offence; • whom the officer has reasonable grounds for suspecting is about to commit an offence or to be committing an offence; • whom the officer has reasonable grounds to suspect of being guilty of an offence which he or she has reasonable grounds for suspecting has been committed; • anyone who is guilty of an offence which has been committed or anyone whom the officer has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of that offence. 2.3A There must be some reasonable, objective grounds for the suspicion, based on known facts and information which are relevant to the likelihood the offence has been committed and the person liable to arrest committed it. See Notes 2 and 2A. (b) Necessity criteria 2.4 The power of arrest is only exercisable if the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that it is necessary to arrest the person. The statutory criteria for what may constitute necessity are set out in paragraph 2.9 and it remains an operational decision at the discretion of the constable to decide: • which one or more of the necessity criteria (if any) applies to the individual; and • if any of the criteria do apply, whether to arrest, grant street bail after arrest, report for summons or for charging by post, issue a penalty notice or take any other action that is open to the officer.

What possible grounds would the arresting constable have for a "reasonable, objective grounds for suspicion" of murder in these circumstances? The home owner should have been offered a cup of tea, protection for the night and advice on having full alarms/ alert to the police station in case of repercussions.

The Martin case is entirely different, from what I remember the guy had been lying in wait with a shotgun behind a door.

If someone comes through your door armed when you are asleep you have every right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. English law is in some ways stronger than all the "stand your ground" nonsense prevalent in some US states such as Florida. The problem appears to be inept Police failing to have common sense in implementing it. I remember a case of a sub-post master who killed a man who came into his Post Office with a shot gun using a string cutter and was not even arrested - seems entirely reasonable to me. Postmaster's distress over killing of armed robber

 

[cupid_stunt]

They didn't charge him.

It has amazed me this week that so many people don't understand the different between 'arrest' & 'charge'.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Wrong thread

 

[cupid_stunt]

I haven't bothered reading the whole thread but arrests need to be justified by PACE code G https://www.justice-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/doj/pace-code-g-2015-.pdf

---
What possible grounds would the arresting constable have for a "reasonable, objective grounds for suspicion" of murder in these circumstances?

Perhaps you should read the thread & get an understanding, instead of wading in with nonsense & making a tit of yourself?

 

[Gromit]

By all accounts the burglar was a scumbag who did time for his specialism in life which appears to be extracting valuables from old people in their own home. I haven't bothered reading the whole thread but arrests need to be justified by PACE code G https://www.justice-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/doj/pace-code-g-2015-.pdf



What possible grounds would the arresting constable have for a "reasonable, objective grounds for suspicion" of murder in these circumstances? The home owner should have been offered a cup of tea, protection for the night and advice on having full alarms/ alert to the police station in case of repercussions.

The Martin case is entirely different, from what I remember the guy had been lying in wait with a shotgun behind a door.

If someone comes through your door armed when you are asleep you have every right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. English law is in some ways stronger than all the "stand your ground" nonsense prevalent in some US states such as Florida. The problem appears to be inept Police failing to have common sense in implementing it. I remember a case of a sub-post master who killed a man who came into his Post Office with a shot gun using a string cutter and was not even arrested - seems entirely reasonable to me. Postmaster's distress over killing of armed robber

Post Offices have CCTV. Need for investigation is pretty much negated by instant access to video evidence.

 

[kenny g]

Perhaps you should read the thread & get an understanding, instead of wading in with nonsense & making a tit of yourself?

Not sure where the sign is that one needs to read through a 17 page thread before making a comment Mr Stunt?

 

[kenny g]

And BTW - not entirely sure "making a tit of yourself" is a the kind of misogynist comment that belongs on these boards or this century.

 

[mx wcfc]

It has amazed me this week that so many people don't understand the different between 'arrest' & 'charge'.

I think we get that, but he shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. and if OB thought they had to, then what grounds did they seriously have for arresting him for murder rather than manslaughter?

I think events since indicate just how badly the police fucked this up. There isn't a jury in this land, outside Pentonville, that is going to find this guy guilty of anything.

 

[kenny g]

I would love to see him sue for unlawful arrest.

 

[Spymaster]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we're back to the beginning of the thread again