Patrick Finucane

[butchersapron]

South Armagh brigade by the way. Enjoy!

Thanks for that, you can almost see the bit where half of my uncles body was blown away and his mates brains went all over his face.

 

[Casually Red]

Well I don't know much about it tbh. I'm not saying matey boy deserved to get murdered, but by sticking up for armed nutters who liked murdering people he must've helped in some small way to prolong the insanity that eventually came looking for him.

His job was to be a solicitor . You're arguing for defence solicitors to be shot . You're a fucking tit .
And " insanity " didn't come looking for him , the state did . Special branch instructed their agents , state killers, to assassinate him . After a cabinet minister publicly hung a target on him . And this murder was one of literally hundreds carried out by state agents as part of a wider terror campaign , waged by the state through its proxy assassins , against the Irish people as a whole . To terrorise them by means of murder and threat of murder into lowering their political aims . A campaign which proved successful .

 

[Casually Red]

If Finucane felt this way, why didn't he defend loyalists as well?

He defended anyone who asked for his services as a solicitor . A loyalist is usually unlikely to ask for a catholic solicitor out of fears for personal security .

 

[likesfish]

Well what the fuck did they expect when they took up arms and started murdering people to terrorise the british people as a whole into to gaining their political aims? civil wars are brutal affairs, As his brothers were IRA terrorists he was unlikely to be the first person on the UVF I've been busted card

 

[Pickman's model]

Well what the fuck did they expect when they took up arms and started murdering people to terrorise the british people as a whole into to gaining their political aims? civil wars are brutal affairs, As his brothers were IRA terrorists he was unlikely to be the first person on the UVF I've been busted card

"guilt by association" i see

 

[Casually Red]

You'd agree with Israeli extra-judicial killings, then? That's exactly their argument.

Spookyfrank would be right at home in Colombia or Guatemala in the 80s . Assassinating defence solicitors on the grounds of what their clients are accused of ...fucking maniac . He's essentially espousing fascism .

 

[Casually Red]

Well what the fuck did they expect when they took up arms and started murdering people to terrorise the british people as a whole into to gaining their political aims? civil wars are brutal affairs, As his brothers were IRA terrorists he was unlikely to be the first person on the UVF I've been busted card

What the fuck has his brothers got to do with it ? He is not his brothers keeper . The then chief constable of the RUC , jack Hermon, publicly exonerated finucane of having any involvement with the Provos . And Hermon was one bad cunt .

The state sent the killers to his home . The killers themselves were protected state agents. The UVF didn't decide to do this. The state did.

 

[Casually Red]

And yet it is naive to expect them to protect you when the core power structures in that society are threatened. I don't believe Governments tend to orchestrate these extra-judicial killings. I just think that elements within those governments turn a blind eye to the excesses of their allies.

It's been amply proven by this point the state did orchestrate it . They even went so far as to import weapons from apartheid south Africa to distribute to their killer gangs . The army agent responsible for that , Brian Nelson , was also the man who selected the targets for assassination . He had access to everyone's security files , courtesy of the British army's FRU and 14th intelligence . And he then gave these files to the killer gangs in order to have these people killed . The vast majority of whom were totally innocent . In fact what he was actually doing for his bosses was steering loyalist killers away from republicans and towards innocent Catholics . Often in order to protect leading Provos who were also state agents . The " stake knife " case being one such example . Where loyalists were steered away from killing Freddie scappitici , and a different catholic with an Italian name was offered up as a target instead .
The states orchestration of republican insurgents is another aspect to this . The state was running killers on both sides . It was orchestrating the fucking lot by the end of it .

 

[Casually Red]

but it's not fucking accurate! at least one death should be removed from 'loyalist paramilitaries' and placed under 'british security'.

One British agent alone, Robin Jackson, is estimated to have been involved in around one hundred murders over three decades . The UVF unit he was central to in the 1970s , the glennanne gang, was pretty much wholly comprised of serving police officers and soldiers . Those were killings carried out by the state forces without a shred of doubt . Yet they aren't classified as such , unsurprisingly .

 

[Casually Red]

I just want to know if they are accurate. If they are accurate then they can't be biased.

Your last paragraph highlights the overlaps. Is a prison guard a civilian? Is someone who organises IRA activities but doesn't shoot or bomb a republican or a civilian? In this kind of conflict, illegal killings and innocent victims are inevitable.

I note you don't ask whether a policeman or a serving soldier planting a bomb in a pub and then machine gunning the survivors is a member of the security forces or a terrorist . Or when he ..the serving policeman or soldier..plants 3 no warning car bombs in working class districts of Dublin that go off during rush hour , killing over 30 people . This is what serving soldiers and police officers were actually doing . In an orchestrated fashion , under the guidance and protection of the state . Protected from prosecution .

 

[likesfish]

"guilt by association" i see

Well by the standards of the conflict he was a legit target but then again niether side was particularly choosy about targets.
Spooks play spook games they certainly dont play nice agents and informers are not remotely controlled what they say and what they do are too diffrent things. They may feed their handlers information it may be true it may be flase it may only be partial truth.

 

[butchersapron]

Well by the standards of the conflict he was a legit target but then again niether side was particularly choosy about targets.
Spooks play spook games they certainly dont play nice agents and informers are not remotely controlled what they say and what they do are too diffrent things. They may feed their handlers information it may be true it may be flase it may only be partial truth.

Stop

 

[dylanredefined]

It's been amply proven by this point the state did orchestrate it . They even went so far as to import weapons from apartheid south Africa to distribute to their killer gangs . The army agent responsible for that , Brian Nelson , was also the man who selected the targets for assassination . He had access to everyone's security files , courtesy of the British army's FRU and 14th intelligence . And he then gave these files to the killer gangs in order to have these people killed . The vast majority of whom were totally innocent . In fact what he was actually doing for his bosses was steering loyalist killers away from republicans and towards innocent Catholics . Often in order to protect leading Provos who were also state agents . The " stake knife " case being one such example . Where loyalists were steered away from killing Freddie scappitici , and a different catholic with an Italian name was offered up as a target instead .
The states orchestration of republican insurgents is another aspect to this . The state was running killers on both sides . It was orchestrating the fucking lot by the end of it .

I thought the loyalists did that themselves trading short blue prints for weapons and getting caught cos some muppet put all the guns in one estate car which got pulled over for being overloaded.
I can understand people wanting to have him shot as getting people off they feel are guilty as sin is annoying. Actually shooting him though is counter productive. We are told the British state and the intelligence services are full of clever people so why did they let something stupid like this happen?

 

[Joe Reilly]

Well what the fuck did they expect when they took up arms and started murdering people to terrorise the british people as a whole into to gaining their political aims?

Insert Irish where you have British and you have the history of the whole island right there.

 

[Fedayn]

Well I don't know much about it tbh. I'm not saying matey boy deserved to get murdered, but by sticking up for armed nutters who liked murdering people he must've helped in some small way to prolong the insanity that eventually came looking for him.

Hark! An anarchist apeaks....

 

[N_igma]

I thought the loyalists did that themselves trading short blue prints for weapons and getting caught cos some muppet put all the guns in one estate car which got pulled over for being overloaded.
I can understand people wanting to have him shot as getting people off they feel are guilty as sin is annoying. Actually shooting him though is counter productive. We are told the British state and the intelligence services are full of clever people so why did they let something stupid like this happen?

If the ends justify the means. Do you think the British government give a fuck about their actions here. Who are they accountable to? No one.

 

[Pickman's model]

If the ends justify the means. Do you think the British government give a fuck about their actions here. Who are they accountable to? No one.

the queen... they are after all her government.

 

[Casually Red]

I thought the loyalists did that themselves trading short blue prints for weapons and getting caught cos some muppet put all the guns in one estate car which got pulled over for being overloaded.
I can understand people wanting to have him shot as getting people off they feel are guilty as sin is annoying. Actually shooting him though is counter productive. We are told the British state and the intelligence services are full of clever people so why did they let something stupid like this happen?

They didn't " let " it happen . They caused it to happen . Their policy was terrorising the Catholics . That's generally the name of the game when you run death squads and Import arms for them .

The shorts blueprint thing was a separate affair involving Noel Little . Brian Nelson under the direction of British military intelligence Imported 2 arms shipments from south Africa...at least . Nelson was 14th intel, working directly under Colonel..now Brigadier... Gordon Kerr . Kerr reported directly to Thatcher herself . Nelson also directed the loyalists targeting . As the UDAs director of intelligence he was the guy who sent the killer squads to their targets . And his database of files was that good he was also able to direct UVF targeting as well .

 

[eoin_k]

If memory serves me correct Finucane did represent Loyalists on occasion, although for those who are so keen to legitimise state collusion in the murder of lawyers no doubt this could be spun as proof that he avariciously exploited the conflict for his own personal gain or something.

 

[Pickman's model]

If memory serves me correct Finucane did represent Loyalists on occasion, although for those who are so keen to legitimise state collusion in the murder of lawyers no doubt this could be spun as proof that he avariciously exploited the conflict for his own personal gain or something.

yes, this has been mentioned above: thank you for your corroboration.

 

[eoin_k]

My apologies. Only so much much of their tripe I was prepared to wade through.

 

[Pickman's model]

My apologies. Only so much much of their tripe I was prepared to wade through.

no, it is good to have a second source confirm what's been said.

have a couple of likes.

 

[Casually Red]

Well by the standards of the conflict he was a legit target but then again niether side was particularly choosy about targets.
Spooks play spook games they certainly dont play nice agents and informers are not remotely controlled what they say and what they do are too diffrent things. They may feed their handlers information it may be true it may be flase it may only be partial truth.

By the standards of the conflict prosecuting lawyers for the state were NEVER targeted . Throughout the conflict lawyers representing defendants on either side were NEVER targeted by either side. This was a purely state affair . It came from the very top .

And what's being discussed here isn't stool pigeons . It's the actions of state sanctioned assassins , directed by the state to kill innocent civilians .

 

[Casually Red]

I cannot be more clear on this. I shed no tears because of what Finucane was, he was an apologist and tacit supporter of murderers.

No he fucking wasn't . He was nothing more than a very able solicitor . He wasn't a member of anything other than the legal profession . Even the head of the RUC confirmed this . Representing people in court cases as their solicitor isn't a fucking crime . Nor is it supporting them . It's nothing more than doing ones job . It was his job , nothing more .

QC Orlando Pownell represented the man accused of the Omagh bombing . Thanks to his efforts the case was exposed as a frame up and he was acquitted . A few years prior to that Pownell prosecuted a RIRA cell in London and got them sent down for very big time . It's nothing more than doing a job .

 

[Casually Red]

Ah yes. Tortured and murdered by the IRA whilst working 'under cover'. He knew the risks he was taking, and was either a fool or a very brave man, or both.

I'm not terribly sure why you pick him out particularly, the job he was doing was being done by others at the time.

Sadly it wasnt just him doing this " brave work " . His close colleague of the time , Major Peter Maynard of the 14th intel...SAS pretty much..is a prime suspect in the Dublin Monaghan bombings....33 innocents blown to pieces in that one. British government to this day refuse to assist any investigation or to hand over any files . Both Niarac and Maynard worked hand in glove with the Glenanne gang who delivered the bombs . Pretty much all of whom were soldiers and policemen .
And the glenanne gangs success turned out to be Niaracs undoing . Their policy of bombing and strafing civilian pubs in south Armagh did as was intended , created terror . Which naturally enough made punters in pubs a bit edgy . And so when one night a stranger comes in putting on a funny accent and acting the maggot in a country pub the locals got a bit suspicious of him . And when it transpired he was armed they naturally enough jumped on him and kicked the fuck out of him..believing him to be one of these assassins who was targeting pubs . Which he was when alls said and done. He was most likely in there casing the joint for him and his mates to attack it later . And it's not as if they're going to call the cops because it's the local cops who are the very ones running about blowing up and shooting up the local pubs on a regular basis . So , who do they call to help them instead ?

I shed no tears for that terrorist bastard . Because that's what he was . A terrorist murderer pure and simple .

 

[Casually Red]

It is my view, to which I'm entitled. I do not demand, or expect, that you will share it.

You never trod the streets of Northern Ireland in uniform, did you? Had you done so, it may have engendered a different view. You will note that I did not say that the killing of Finucane was just or legal, because it wasn't. That fact does blind me to what Finucane and his ilk were/are, they are apologists for murdering scum. I extend that view to those who specialised in the defence of both lots of murdering scum.

I trod the streets of it every day of my life having to endure cunts in uniforms with mindsets just like yours having the power do as they felt like with ones person because they had a big gun . And your definition of what constitutes an " ilk " might give some people here a mild hint as to what that was often like .
The difference was you got to go home after a few months . For me it was like fucking groundhog day . Different faces , same shower of cunts .

 

[Casually Red]

Exactly and one of those Finucane defended was Bobby Sands, who never shot or bombed anyone.

???

Eh ???

I'm pretty sure that's not true .

 

[bamalama]

"guilt by association" i see

It's his m.o on these threads , provo scum, paddies, paddy-taliban,terrorists, taxi drivers, families...targets.
He doesn't even take the shilling anymore and the stupid grunt's still patrollin with hate in his eyes and sweets in his pockets

 

[Casually Red]

It's his m.o on these threads , provo scum, paddies, paddy-taliban,terrorists, taxi drivers, families...targets.
He doesn't even take the shilling anymore and the stupid grunt's still patrollin with hate in his eyes and sweets in his pockets

Got to say I'm staggered by some of the responses to this mans murder , including by self professed anarchists . Compare those attitudes against even those held by the very Tory bastards refusing to permit a public enquiry . Even they .. Cameron and his legal advisor Sir Jeremy Heywood..admitted in their email correspondence that this murder was " ..a dark moment in the country's history.Far worse than anything which was alleged in Iraq or Afghanistan " Cameron replied to Heywood that the PMs office " shares the view that this is an awful case , as bad as it gets , and is far worse than any post 9/11 allegation " . That's from the flipping Tories at the very top . The ones on here though would make willy Frazier look soft .

 

[bamalama]

Got to say I'm staggered by some of the responses to this mans murder , including by self professed anarchists . Compare those attitudes against even those held by the very Tory bastards refusing to permit a public enquiry . Even they .. Cameron and his legal advisor Sir Jeremy Heywood..admitted in their email correspondence that this murder was " ..a dark moment in the country's history.Far worse than anything which was alleged in Iraq or Afghanistan " Cameron replied to Heywood that the PMs office " shares the view that this is an awful case , as bad as it gets , and is far worse than any post 9/11 allegation " . That's from the flipping Tories at the very top . The ones on here though would make willy Frazier look soft .

I'm not, it's just the usual shower of ex/serving grunts, and spookyfrank's a cartoon anarchist with form for his crap on these threads ye can't take him seriously