Patrick Finucane

[Sasaferrato]

And, let's be clear, you do NOT stand in the middle at all. It is a factually inaccurate, silly assertion without any evidence whatsoever. You stand on the side of the British Army, ie in defence of the 'British State/state machinery. A machinery we are increasingly seeing was not only involved but directing/colluding with murderers and giving free rein to their informers to murder at will and then covering up those crimes. You are not in the middle at all, it is delusional to claim so.

Are you unable to read, unable to understand or being deliberately obtuse. I point you to post #479.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm absolute neutral. The murdering scum on both sides are just that, murdering scum, Protestant and Catholic. I would feel exactly the same if Finucane had been defending Protestant murdering scum.

The institution you were in when you treaded those streets and that you think gives you more right to speak, wasn't. So, your,institution based view is not a neutral view. It's an active participant view.

 

[Fedayn]

I'm absolute neutral. The murdering scum on both sides are just that, murdering scum, Protestant and Catholic. I would feel exactly the same if Finucane had been defending Protestant murdering scum.

I am so neutral I am fine with British Army/State informers murdering defence lawyers for doing their job. Indeed, the very definition of 'neutral', right there in the OED.

 

[Sasaferrato]

was it fuck

It was actually. The first troops in were cheered by the Catholic community in Londonderry.

 

[butchersapron]

I am so neutral I am fine with British Army/State informers murdering defence lawyers for doing their job. Indeed, the very definition of 'neutral', right there in the OED.

Tbf he said he didn't like it. Then that he did. With gaurantors such as these...

 

[butchersapron]

It was actually. The first troops in were cheered by the Catholic community in Londonderry.

Oh god, here we go.

 

[Fedayn]

It was actually. The first troops in were cheered by the Catholic community in Londonderry.

Indeed, which shows the very notable difference between the perception of the local RC working class and the reality of the role of the Army. You understand the difference between perception and reality I presume?

 

[Pickman's model]

It was actually. The first troops in were cheered by the Catholic community in Londonderry.

no, as major chichester-clark said to bernadette devlin on 14/8/69, the army were in londonderry to assist the police, not to replace them. cheering crowds are neither here nor there and do not support your point. the simple fact of the matter is that the troops were sent into the six counties in support of the stormont government, the civil power at the time.

 

[Fedayn]

Are you unable to read, unable to understand or being deliberately obtuse. I point you to post #479.

Unlike you yes, as such can you be specific and regards to which particular 'Catholic murderers', ie individuals, as I did, you are referring to. IRA/INLA/CRF British Army/The Det etc

 

[Sasaferrato]

I am so neutral I am fine with British Army/State informers murdering defence lawyers for doing their job. Indeed, the very definition of 'neutral', right there in the OED.

There really is little point in debating with you, is there? You are intent on driving your own agenda.

I stated quite categorically that the killing of Finucane was a disgrace, and was absolutely unsupportable. I cannot be more clear on this. I shed no tears because of what Finucane was, he was an apologist and tacit supporter of murderers, that however, does not stop me from recognising the illegality of his killing, and expressing abhorrence, because those responsible for his death will not be held accountable.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Unlike you yes, as such can you be specific and regards to which particular 'Catholic murderers', ie individuals, as I did, you are referring to. IRA/INLA/CRF British Army/The Det etc

All of the above really. There are no clean hands in this 'struggle'.

 

[butchersapron]

There really is little point in debating with you, is there? You are intent on driving your own agenda.

I stated quite categorically that the killing of Finucane was a disgrace, and was absolutely unsupportable. I cannot be more clear on this. I shed no tears because of what Finucane was, he was an apologist and tacit supporter of murderers, that however, does not stop me from recognising the illegality of his killing, and expressing abhorrence, because those responsible for his death will not be held accountable.

I'm divided 50:50 between the thought that a state does what it needs to do, and the thought that the state must act within its own laws.

You're on the verge (50/50) of saying that the rule of laws doesn't and shouldn't exist. You're a dangerous extremist.

What happens when it goes 49/51? You men who have treaded the streets in uniform? You daft twat.

edit: i edited and posted the word twat. danny doesn't like abuse, so i'd like to say that his like doesn't reflect my use of the word twat

 

[danny la rouge]

I shed no tears because of what Finucane was

A defence lawyer.

 

[Fedayn]

There really is little point in debating with you, is there? You are intent on driving your own agenda.

I stated quite categorically that the killing of Finucane was a disgrace, and was absolutely unsupportable. I cannot be more clear on this. I shed no tears because of what Finucane was, he was an apologist and tacit supporter of murderers, that however, does not stop me from recognising the illegality of his killing, and expressing abhorrence, because those responsible for his death will not be held accountable.

It was a disgrace but you sed "no tears"? Yes, that makes sense. You are no neutral, you are an idiot for trying to claim you are, a dishonest idiot at that. He was a lawyer, a defence lawyer doing what the state you so blindly serve says he should do.

 

[Fedayn]

All of the above really. There are no clean hands in this 'struggle'.

You are the king of sweeping generalisations incapable of actually looking further than the end of your cap badge.

 

[Pickman's model]

All of the above really. There are no clean hands in this 'struggle'.

surely the british army should not have tarnished its hands being as it was only there to defend the catholics (if you're to be believed)... how came its hands to be filthy?

 

[danny la rouge]

You're on the verge (50/50) of saying that the rule of laws doesn't and shouldn't exist. You're a dangerous extremist.

An online domestic extremist, seeking to convert others to his beliefs.

 

[butchersapron]

An online domestic extremist, seeking to convert others to his beliefs.

I'm on the verge of policing him.

 

[danny la rouge]

edit: i edited and posted the word twat. danny doesn't like abuse, so i'd like to say that his like doesn't reflect my use of the word twat

Cheers.

 

[butchersapron]

How did this silly man become radicalised? What in his private school and british army background prepared him for this?

 

[Sasaferrato]

no, as major chichester-clark said to bernadette devlin on 14/8/69, the army were in londonderry to assist the police, not to replace them. cheering crowds are neither here nor there and do not support your point. the simple fact of the matter is that the troops were sent into the six counties in support of the stormont government, the civil power at the time.

I am old enough to have served with soldiers who were in NI right at the start, the days when the people of the Catholic areas brought out cups of tea for the soldiers. Didn't last long...

All in, not the most glorious period of British history, and I suspect it will be a long time before memories fade, and the community comes together. It is still split along religious/nationalist lines. The recent ballyhoo about flying the Union Flag over Belfast City hall is symptomatic of the divide. At least things seem to be being settled politically, rather than by violence, which is a step forward.

Sending in the troops was probably not the best thing to do, but it is difficult to see what else could have been done.

 

[danny la rouge]

the days when the people of the Catholic areas brought out cups of tea for the soldiers. Didn't last long...

Indeed.

 

[Sasaferrato]

A defence lawyer.

Fair enough Danny, you have your view, I have mine.

 

[butchersapron]

Fair enough Danny, you have your view, I have mine.

Yours weigh fifteen hundred tons.

 

[danny la rouge]

Fair enough Danny, you have your view, I have mine.

Yes. But I think your views are dangerous. I'm not being hyperbolic.

 

[8den]

tbh i expect most lawyers defending people are well aware of the deeds their clients are supposed to have done, it would be rather difficult to defend them otherwise.

Indeed by that rational Sass is suggesting that lawyers who defend serial killers or paedophiles tacitly support or condone their clients actions.

Everyone is entitled to legal representation, just because Finuance clients included terrorists does not mean he was a terrorist or terrorist sympathiser.

 

[Sasaferrato]

surely the british army should not have tarnished its hands being as it was only there to defend the catholics (if you're to be believed)... how came its hands to be filthy?

FFS! Don't be so fucking naive. Do you seriously think I'm going to walk into your little trap?

First off, what I said was correct, AT THAT TIME. The situation changed rapidly, and the army became the enemy of both communities; more so the Catholic than the Protestant, due to British government collusion with the Protestant murderers. The answer was always going be a political one; sadly, a lot of people died before that happened.

 

[Pickman's model]

FFS! Don't be so fucking naive. Do you seriously think I'm going to walk into your little trap?

First off, what I said was correct, AT THAT TIME. The situation changed rapidly, and the army became the enemy of both communities; more so the Catholic than the Protestant, due to British government collusion with the Protestant murderers. The answer was always going be a political one; sadly, a lot of people died before that happened.

er... wasn't british government collusion with the protestant murderers expressed through the medium of the army? i mean, a lot of protestant murderers strangely happened to be members of the british army... for example http://www.thedetail.tv/articles/british-army-covered-up-udr-units-links-to-uvf

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yes. But I think your views are dangerous. I'm not being hyperbolic.

Really? Did I advocate or celebrate the killing of Finucane? No, I did not. Perfectly honestly, I stated that the manner of his death was disgraceful, but, I wasn't sorry to see him go. I am not advocating extra judicial execution (or indeed execution at all), and really cannot make it more clear, that I find it abhorrent that those responsible have gone unpunished.

 

[Pickman's model]

Really? Did I advocate or celebrate the killing of Finucane? No, I did not. Perfectly honestly, I stated that the manner of his death was disgraceful, but, I wasn't sorry to see him go. I am not advocating extra judicial execution (or indeed execution at all), and really cannot make it more clear, that I find it abhorrent that those responsible have gone unpunished.

but understandable, perhaps, why the british government might not want that situation to change.