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Patrick Finucane

ViolentPanda said:
1) I'm not a Marxist, and my politics derive from observation and experience, not from reading a single political philosopher and worshipping him as my deity. In my experience, and from what I've gleaned from a wide variety of sources (I'm one of those Urbanites who preaches reading ALL perspectives on a matter and only then attempting to reach an opinion on it), class is indivisibly bound-up in any conflict. It's interesting that your ilk, you lifestylers, are happy to accept the proposition that capitalism is behind conflict, but not to see past that.
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I do see past it, but what I see is not the same as what you see. This is what I mean by orthodoxy, if I look at something and see something besides the word CLASS written in eighty-foot high letters then I'm wrong. It doesn't actually matter what I think so why should I bother thinking. There is only CLASS and everything is CLASS and nobody ever explains what their particular analysis of the word CLASS entails they just trot it out every time like an unbeatable trump card. Because I'm incapable of seeing the world as just a big ball of CLASS you people won't ever give a shit what I think. I get called an illiterate child, or told that my mother is a regional manager for Waitrose or something.

That being the case I might as well just troll the lot of you in the vague hope I might at least make you work for your opinions.
 
SpookyFrank said:
I do see past it, but what I see is not the same as what you see. This is what I mean by orthodoxy, if I look at something and see something besides the word CLASS written in eighty-foot high letters then I'm wrong. It doesn't actually matter what I think so why should I bother thinking. There is only CLASS and everything is CLASS and nobody ever explains what their particular analysis of the word CLASS entails they just trot it out every time like an unbeatable trump card. Because I'm incapable of seeing the world as just a big ball of CLASS you people won't ever give a shit what I think. I get called an illiterate child, or told that my mother is a regional manager for Waitrose or something.

That being the case I might as well just troll the lot of you in the vague hope I might at least make you work for your opinions.
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I think what you're driving at is, you don't have an understanding of class, whether it be from marx or any other thinker or one you've cobbled together yourself.
 
Pickman's model said:
I think what you're driving at is, you don't have an understanding of class, whether it be from marx or any other thinker or one you've cobbled together yourself.
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No, what I'm getting at is that it is not permitted around here to have an understanding of class with differs from that of the fucking tweed jacket brigade.
 
SpookyFrank said:
I do see past it, but what I see is not the same as what you see. This is what I mean by orthodoxy, if I look at something and see something besides the word CLASS written in eighty-foot high letters then I'm wrong. It doesn't actually matter what I think so why should I bother thinking. There is only CLASS and everything is CLASS and nobody ever explains what their particular analysis of the word CLASS entails they just trot it out every time like an unbeatable trump card. Because I'm incapable of seeing the world as just a big ball of CLASS you people won't ever give a shit what I think. I get called an illiterate child, or told that my mother is a regional manager for Waitrose or something.
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No-one has said "there is only class". Do yourself a favour and trepan yourself. Let some sense in.
Basic sociological theory has had it for the last hundred years or so that whatever other cleavages there are - literate from non-literate; haves from have-nots; honkies from coons; pointers from sitters, class cuts through them all. It's there regardless of your wish not to see it.
That being the case I might as well just troll the lot of you in the vague hope I might at least make you work for your opinions.
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Because, of course, none of us have spent 20-30 years forming and revising our opinions, and none of us are as clever, as insightful as you, Frank. :)
 
SpookyFrank said:
I do see past it, but what I see is not the same as what you see. This is what I mean by orthodoxy, if I look at something and see something besides the word CLASS written in eighty-foot high letters then I'm wrong. It doesn't actually matter what I think so why should I bother thinking. There is only CLASS and everything is CLASS and nobody ever explains what their particular analysis of the word CLASS entails they just trot it out every time like an unbeatable trump card. Because I'm incapable of seeing the world as just a big ball of CLASS you people won't ever give a shit what I think. I get called an illiterate child, or told that my mother is a regional manager for Waitrose or something.

That being the case I might as well just troll the lot of you in the vague hope I might at least make you work for your opinions.
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Yes.You were trolling. Disgraceful retreat. At least defend your ignorance.
 
SpookyFrank said:
No, what I'm getting at is that it is not permitted around here to have an understanding of class with differs from that of the fucking tweed jacket brigade.
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I don't even own a metaphoric tweed jacket, let alone an actual one. I'm a working-class male who put himself through higher ed after working for a living, and becoming so disabled that I was no longer able to do so. I live in social housing, and have done for the majority of my eventful life.
In fact most of the people you deride as "the tweed jacket brigade" are likely far less privileged than you assume. Just because someone writes well doesn't mean they're a member of your class, Frank. :)
 
ViolentPanda said:
I don't even own a metaphoric tweed jacket, let alone an actual one. I'm a working-class male who put himself through higher ed after working for a living, and becoming so disabled that I was no longer able to do so. I live in social housing, and have done for the majority of my eventful life.
In fact most of the people you deride as "the tweed jacket brigade" are likely far less privileged than you assume. Just because someone writes well doesn't mean they're a member of your class, Frank. :)
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You don't know what class I come from. Everyone assumes I'm middle class because of the way I write. Another symptom of this one-dimensional understanding of class everyone seems so fond of.
 
SpookyFrank said:
That being the case I might as well just troll the lot of you in the vague hope I might at least make you work for your opinions.
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:eek: :facepalm: You big fuckin shitehouse:D :rolleyes:

trolling my arse, you are a wrong 'un Frances, simple as.

Not because you disagree with me, but because you publicly post (strong and stupid) opinions that are diametrically opposed to your (seemingly affected, but nonetheless publicly declared) political view. Anarchist? Puh-lease.
 
Fuck. Man got outed in Uk Parliament as an IRA 'Godfather'. Man was a lawyer who represented lots of people not just republican activists. One week later Man was shot dead in front of his kids by loyalist scum in collusion with British securocrats, the same people who were claiming the moral high ground in the fight against terrorism and criminality. Leaving aside law, morality, military occupation, the famine or any other shit, the assassination of Patrick Finucane was a game changing massive fail, a complete and utter 'fuck you' to the catholic/republican population of NI. The message was simple, 'this system of law we treasure has no meaning for you because you don't count'. It prolonged and intensified the conflict and continues to be a thorn in the arse of any discussion since including this one. It is important because it gets to the core of hypocrisy that defines this age in this part of the world.
 
SpookyFrank said:
I can't help being ignorant, my class requires it of me.
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I dunno what Class you claim to belong to, but you simply have no class... none at all.

Btw if you are working class and even nominally politically aware... far from requiring your continuing ignorance... your Class requires you to do some reading, thinking, debating.

Wallowing (and celebrating) in your own ignorance is the perrogative of working-class tories and fascists - never of socialists, communists or anarchists. You Daily Mail pleb.
 
OK you got me, I made a stupid post based on a situation I had no understanding of and then for some reason spent a long time trying to defend it.

I'm really quite ashamed of myself and I can only apologise. I really don't know why I keep doing this, I'm actually quite nice in real life.

I'm not being sarcastic any more, I'm genuinely sorry for being such a twat. It's probably better if I leave this thread now.
 
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