Parents gather outside Birmingham school to protest against gay teacher

[mojo pixy]

One of the quotes from the lady says that children are “created”

Well, they are created .. by pushing and shoving and sweating and grinding and a mess of body fluids. At least that's how mine was done, YMMV

 

[likesfish]

Ffs it's the 21st century in the UK GLBT people exsist noone is going to teach your kids how to be gay.
If the paras can cope with the exsistance of gay paras (obviously not unarmed Irish gays it's still a work in progress)

Teaching kids that the gays exist and arnt going to kill them is hardly outrageous.

 

[Wilf]

There are some views that are incompatible with holding an influential working role with children.

If someone was posting anti Semitic shit in their free time, or white supremacist, I’d also expect their job with kids to be jeopardised.

But would you support them going through a disciplinary/dismissal process as a union rep? That's not so much a challenge to you or what you say, just thinking about how the different sets of rights would play out.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Well, they are created .. by pushing and shoving and sweating and grinding and a mess of body fluids. At least that's how mine was done, YMMV

Sexual fluids are mucuous-based, so basically kids are created from snot.

 

[Wilf]

Sexual fluids are mucuous-based, so basically kids are created from snot.

You old romantic you.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But would you support them going through a disciplinary/dismissal process as a union rep? That's not so much a challenge to you or what you say, just thinking about how the different sets of rights would play out.

The RMT is just about the strongest union in the country. But if you get done for alcohol at work, despite what the tabloid press would have you believe, they won't defend you unless they feel you have significant mitigating circumstances. The union actually agrees with some of the rules and penalties laid down by management, particularly when it comes to safety. Is this situation not analogous? Would the teacher's union not agree with management's rules regarding spouting homophobia and promoting a homophobic campaign?

 

[tim]

What if these parents were complaining about kids being taught evolution in science and insisted they taught creationism instead?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the next step.

A Whatiffery and a wouldntsurpriserme in the same post. You're surpassing yourself today!

 

[Treacle Toes]

How can anyone who actively promotes homphobia be trusted to uphold the equality and diversity commitments/policies of the place they work for and they are contractually bound to?

Any union rep working for this member would be aiming for damage limitation, some king of warning would have been the very best they could have hoped for surely? That would've been a fucking long shot though.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

How can anyone who actively promotes homphobia be trusted to uphold the equality and diversity commitments/policies of the place they work for and they are contractually bound to?

Any union rep working for this member would be aiming for damage limitation, some king of warning would have been the very best they could have hoped for surely? That would've been a fucking long shot though.

With advice such as 'apologise, show remorse, vow never to do it again, agree to go on a training course'. Doesn't look like this person wishes to do any of those things. That's a very long way from what this Christian group appears to be trying to do, which is to defend her right to do what she did. No reason any union would or should do that any more than the RMT would defend a driver's right to have a drink at lunchtime.

Christian group of course has wider objectives too, which are to push to get teaching policies changed. So they may well take this case on even if they know they'll lose it. They're not necessarily looking out for her interests here.

 

[SpineyNorman]

A Whatiffery and a wouldntsurpriserme in the same post. You're surpassing yourself today!

I surpass myself on a daily basis.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

With advice such as 'apologise, show remorse, vow never to do it again, agree to go on a training course'. Doesn't look like this person wishes to do any of those things. That's a very long way from what this Christian group appears to be trying to do, which is to defend her right to do what she did. No reason any union would or should do that any more than the RMT would defend a driver's right to have a drink at lunchtime.

Christian group of course has wider objectives too, which are to push to get teaching policies changed. So they may well take this case on even if they know they'll lose it. They're not necessarily looking out for her interests here.

The CLC are a bunch of fanatics who will always try to overturn equality laws, and laws around abortion, etc. The stances they take are akin to advocating for xtians to have an absolute right to do what they want, regardless of the consequences on others - similar to the 'religious freedom' laws enacted by various states in the US.

There are some entertaining judgments where they have (predictably) lost cases, where the judge slags off their counsel.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The CLC are a bunch of fanatics who will always try to overturn equality laws, and laws around abortion, etc. The stances they take are akin to advocating for xtians to have an absolute right to do what they want, regardless of the consequences on others - similar to the 'religious freedom' laws enacted by various states in the US.

There are some entertaining judgments where they have (predictably) lost cases, where the judge slags off their counsel.

Yes, good to be reminded of the successes these fucks have had in the US. Thanks for making the link. Stuff like employers being allowed to deny their employees abortion coverage in their health care insurance plans, for instance, which exists in more than one state. They should be vigorously opposed.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Yes, good to be reminded of the successes these fucks have had in the US. Thanks for making the link. Stuff like employers being allowed to deny their employees abortion coverage in their health care insurance plans, for instance, which exists in more than one state. They should be vigorously opposed.

These groups are utter cunts and should be fought at every opportunity. They basically want a theocracy.

 

[spanglechick]

But would you support them going through a disciplinary/dismissal process as a union rep? That's not so much a challenge to you or what you say, just thinking about how the different sets of rights would play out.

Im not a union rep but I would want their union to fully support them in understanding where they stand as regards their legal position. If, as I suspect, that legally they’re screwed, I’d hope the union would help ensure that their dismissal was dealt with appropriately wrt any benefits/notice/references etc.

 

[SpineyNorman]

The moral relativists here are essentially saying that those who think being gay is not normal and not socially acceptable should be given equal weight to the views of those who believe in equality. I completely reject that. I'm not a Liberal moral relativist. I'm a communist. We take sides.

 

[mojo pixy]

Sexual fluids are mucuous-based, so basically kids are created from snot.

I think all animal and a good deal of insect and plant life on Earth is snot-based. What a delightful planet

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I think all animal and a good deal of insect and plant life on Earth is snot-based. What a delightful planet

Planet gelatinous.

Its what happens when eukaryotes decide to hitch a ride with each other - they need some lube.

 

[mojo pixy]

Planet gelatinous.

Its what happens when eukaryotes decide to hitch a ride with each other - they need some lube.

plus, however potential offspring emerge from the birth parent - whether naked or inside an egg - they need some way to slip 'n' slide out, right?

 

[tim]

Wouldn't surprise me if the union had told her to go away, tbh. You're a homophobe who got caught promoting homophobia on the internet. Not going to help you, sorry.

Let's hope not, because lots of us are potentially fucked if this is the case.

Firstly, she was grassed up to her bosses by a snitch who took a screen grab of something she posted to "Friends" only, not as a general public post. Secondly, she was complaining about the curriculum in her child's primary school, not the institution she works in. Nothing she has said is illegal. As has been made clear, elsewhere, this is about school image management; the belief that by posting she could have caused reputational damage. They are not interested in student welfare. They want to protect their brand.

I'll be out in London tomorrow supporting Friends involved in thr Extinction Rebellion protests. I shan't be breaking the law, but presumably my mere association with such groups might be considered to cause reputational damage to my employer; a potentially more realistic threat to my well being at work are my sporadic postings on social media about the current situation in Saudi Arabia as takes state sponsored students from Saudi Arabia some of whom I teach. I'm not ashamed of what I do and have no desire to self-censor. I don't want to refrain from such activities, even though if a link were made it could cause "reputational damage". I actually believe that what I do in my private life, as long as I don't break the law is of no business to my employer. I don't think they should have a right to discipline me for what I do or say in my private life. I would clearly expect my Union to support me not to tell me to fuck off.

Finally, all the "reasonable" boss crap spouted here makes me want to puke. We should be supporting workers against bosses, even workers we distain.

 

[Serge Forward]

Would you defend a scab?

 

[Don Troooomp]

I doubt they would have a problem with my way of life,

.....but many people object to their way of life. Trying to force sex education on them is about the same as some silly fucker trying to tell gay men to wear little weights on their cocks in the hope of avoiding an erection upon seeing a bloke they fancy.
For these parents, the lessons were offensive and an attack on their lifestyle.

I think what's missing here is the ability to see other people's points of view. You don't have to agree with something to understand it, but refusing to accept it's their point of view, and actively trying to change their social norms, is bigoted, ignorant, and dangerous.

Ask this - Where does trying to enforce a point of view on the unwilling stop?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If anyone fancies a read about the Christian Legal Centre, which appears to have been the source of the bulk of the information cited on this thread about this dismal case, this link provides a little snapshot of their organisation. Total cunts. They're mostly not even lawyers.

https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2018/04/o...ionable-ethics-of-the-christian-legal-centre/

I really can't speak for Christians too much as I'm not one, but this shower and their fellow-travellers really do not represent any kind of mainstream Christian thinking in the UK. In fact you'll find many Christian sites strongly criticising them, eg:

How is the Christian Legal Centre funded? – Thinking Anglicans

Playbook direct from the US. And money from the US as well by the looks of it. Really, really need to be opposed, this lot.

Close observers of the centre believe it is adopting the tactics of wealthy US evangelical groups, notably the powerful Alliance Defence Fund, which, through its Blackstone Legal Fellowship, trains an army of Christian lawyers to defend religious freedom “through strategy, training, funding and direct litigation”.

The ADF, which according to filings had an income of almost $40m last year, is funded by prominent benefactors including Erik Prince, founder of the Blackwater private security giant, the Covenant Foundation, which is financed by a leading member of the Texas Christian right, James Leininger, and the Bolthouse Foundation, a charity that rejects evolution, insisting “man was created by a direct act of God in His image, not from previously existing creatures”.

The ADF has joined forces with the Christian Legal Centre and Christian Concern For Our Nation to launch the Wilberforce Academy in the UK, which aims to train delegates “for servant-hearted, Christ-centred leadership in public life” having equipped them “with a robust biblical framework that guides their thinking, prayers and activity in addressing the issues facing our society”. Several of its delegates have already gone on to work for the legal centre and Christian Concern.

And tim, your criticism of earlier whataboutery from spineyn - there's the link to creationism, right there. It wasn't hard to find.

 

[Wookey]

[QUOTE="Don Troooomp, post: 16014622, member: 75608] Trying to force sex education on them is about the same as some silly fucker trying to tell gay men to wear little weights on their cocks in the hope of avoiding an erection upon seeing a bloke they fancy.[/QUOTE]

That has to rate as one of the most tortured and ill-conceived analogies I have ever waded through. And you're a dirty puppy as well.

I notice you use "force" and "sex" in the same phrase when it comes to describing these lessons, which is interestingly suggestive.

What "sex education" do you think is being "forced" on these five year old children...exactly?

 

[Don Troooomp]

Would you defend a scab?

How dangerous is that statement?

You've dehumanised a person
You've used a term to describe someone with an opposing political or social view that has a very negative twist, possibly to the point of suggesting violence is a perfectly acceptable way to deal with them
You've suggested the person is unfit to live in society
You've said the person is unfit for fair treatment, and they're guilty as a result of accusation, not conviction of a crime that doesn't exist
You've made up a crime, and suggested punishment of some sort should follow

Who shall we dehumanise next?

 

[Don Troooomp]

I notice you use "force" and "sex" in the same phrase when it comes to describing these lessons, which is interestingly suggestive.

Force suggests resistance, and there is clearly a lot of that.
Sex is talking about relationships, and the teacher did that.

Yes, the teachers was forcing kids to learn about stuff that is alien to their culture, and the parents objected.

 

[SpineyNorman]

.....but many people object to their way of life. Trying to force sex education on them is about the same as some silly fucker trying to tell gay men to wear little weights on their cocks in the hope of avoiding an erection upon seeing a bloke they fancy.
For these parents, the lessons were offensive and an attack on their lifestyle.

I think what's missing here is the ability to see other people's points of view. You don't have to agree with something to understand it, but refusing to accept it's their point of view, and actively trying to change their social norms, is bigoted, ignorant, and dangerous.

Ask this - Where does trying to enforce a point of view on the unwilling stop?

Nobody is doing that. They can think whatever the fuck they want, even tell their kids whatever the fuck they want to tell them.

Nobody is asking them to take it up the arse. Nobody is telling their kids they should be gay. Nobody is imposing anything on anyone.

But if they're going to tell their kids bigoted shit at home the kids will be told it's hateful nonsense when they go to school. If they don't like it then tough shit.

Again, homophobes aren't on an equal moral footing to those who believe in equality. In drawing an equivalence you reveal a lot about yourself.

 

[Don Troooomp]

What if these parents were complaining about kids being taught evolution in science and insisted they taught creationism instead?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the next step.

What is these parents insisted on a magical figure that created and controls the world? - OMG - STOP THEM!
Ban religion, ban thoughts that don't conform to yours, ban reading, ban .......

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That has to rate as one of the most tortured and ill-conceived analogies I have ever waded through. And you're a dirty puppy as well.

I notice you use "force" and "sex" in the same phrase when it comes to describing these lessons, which is interestingly suggestive.

What "sex education" do you think is being "forced" on these five year old children...exactly?

A veritable freudian field day, this one.

 

[Wookey]

Sex is talking about relationships, and the teacher did that..

Sex isn't talking about relationships at all. Maybe in your head, but then I've peaked inside your head and it's mucky in there.

Teachers use age-appropriate terms, to discuss the plurality of family make up. Mum and dad. Mum and no dad. Two mums. There's no sex involved, especially not for five yhear olds ffs, and the fact you think it would says more about you than it does these teachers. Plural by the way, this isn't one man doing one lesson one time, it's national curriculum policy.

Yes, the teachers was forcing kids to learn about stuff that is alien to their culture, and the parents objected.

It's not alien to any culture, ever, on earth, since humans had culture. You're repeating a homophobe lie, and doing it shamelessly. Who the fuck are you and who let you in?

 

[SpineyNorman]

What is these parents insisted on a magical figure that created and controls the world? - OMG - STOP THEM!
Ban religion, ban thoughts that don't conform to yours, ban reading, ban .......

That bares no relation to what I posted you boring know nothing twat.

Again, they can believe what they want but in science classes people should be taught science and not mythology. If they want their kids taught about the book of genesis they can send them to fucking Sunday school.

I wouldn't have had you down as a fan of the US religious right, strange that you should parrot their arguments so freely, knowingly or not.