Osama bin Laden killed by US forces in Pakistan

[dilute micro]

Interesting article here about the photo of Obama and co watching the assault on Bin Laden. He notes something I hadn't really noticed. Look where the pres is sitting

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/a-revealing-photo/238284/

I have no doubt they each know who the boss is.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think you are missing the point of the article. They guy is saying that it is confidence in power that allows Obama to take a back seat. Would Bush have ever released a photo like that. Actually I think you do get the point but you are just being a contrarian tit

I do get the point. I think the President is self-aware enough to know when he should step aside and let the Generals handle it. He's not complete a sociopath like W.

 

[dylans]

If he's not dead, then the terrorists have the means to totally humiliate the US by getting him to knock out another video. Besides, if you saw the photo you'd only declare it a fake.

You really are fucking thick. Have you read a single thing I have written? I KNOW HE IS DEAD. I am questioning whether, as his daughter claims, he was executed after capture. Stop building straw men

 

[editor]

You really are fucking thick. Have you read a single thing I have written? I KNOW HE IS DEAD. Stop building straw men

So what are "we" being "lied to" about here, and how do you know?

 

[elbows]

Interesting article here about the photo of Obama and co watching the assault on Bin Laden. He notes something I hadn't really noticed. Look where the pres is sitting

Whats this got to do with anything? Actually if I look at the highest resolution available version of this photo, the question I have is 'what the hell is going on with the chin of Obama?'

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/sizes/o/in/photostream/

 

[dylans]

So what are "we" being "lied to" about here, and how do you know?

His daughter claims he was executed after he was captured. The administration says he died "resisting".

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think if I had just ordered almost exactly what Jimmy Carter did in 1979, I'd look a bit serious too. The failure of that raid was the absolute end of Carter's Presidency. If it didn't go down right, it would mean the same for Obama.

 

[editor]

There's some rather horrible, blood-packed photos of two dead guards inside the compound here: http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound

 

[editor]

His daughter claims he was executed after he was captured. The administration says he died "resisting".

Who interviewed the daughter? What is the source of this story?

 

[editor]

Interesting article here about the photo of Obama and co watching the assault on Bin Laden. He notes something I hadn't really noticed. Look where the pres is sitting

Did you expect him to be sat on a big golden throne on something? What is your point?

 

[teqniq]

Whats this got to do with anything? Actually if I look at the highest resolution available version of this photo, the question I have is 'what the hell is going on with the chin of Obama?'

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/sizes/o/in/photostream/

it kinda looks glued-on actually.

 

[elbows]

His daughter claims he was executed after he was captured. The administration says he died "resisting".

Im sure they'd give a knowing wink whilst saying it if they could.

He was executed, the precise detail doesnt bother me that much.

I would expect that the administration is quite happy for the world to know that they executed him, but at the same time they cant quite say it that openly as its not the done thing and Im sure there are some pesky legal issues.

Come on man, this is almost as transparent as it gets when it comes to high stakes issues of 'security' and the rest of that murky world. Wanted dead or alive is a pretty clear message of intent, with an emphasis on the word dead, and just because Obama doesnt do the wild west rhetoric doesnt mean that anything really changed once Bush was gone.

 

[Spymaster]

His daughter claims he was executed after he was captured. The administration says he died "resisting".

But there's no evidence that could conclusively prove it one way or the other, Dylans.

I could knock-up a photo for you that shows the back of Bin Laden's head without bullet holes in!

 

[dylans]

Who interviewed the daughter? What is the source of this story?

OSAMA bin Laden was unarmed and with members of his family - including his 12-year-old daughter - when he was shot dead by US special forces on Monday, according to new details that emerged yesterday.
The daughter has claimed that she watched as her father was captured alive and shot before being dragged to a US military helicopter, Arabic news network al-Arabiya quoted Pakistani officials as saying.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/daughter-12-saw-killing-of-unarmed-bin-laden-20110504-1e8fl.html

Did you expect him to be sat on a big golden throne on something? What is your point?

I think the author's point is that Bush would never have released a photo like that with him sitting in the corner like an intern.

 

[dilute micro]

I think if I had just ordered almost exactly what Jimmy Carter did in 1979, I'd look a bit serious too. The failure of that raid was the absolute end of Carter's Presidency. If it didn't go down right, it would mean the same for Obama.

Nah. Carter's was exceptional and he didn't lose because of that. Carter lost because he was a terrible president.

We're used to not finding Bin Laden. It'd been business as usual.

 

[elbows]

There's some rather horrible, blood-packed photos of two dead guards inside the compound here: http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound

Did you notice that there is a water pistol right by the head of one of the dead?!

It would not be utterly shocking to learn that this was the only weapon in the house.

 

[dylans]

Im sure they'd give a knowing wink whilst saying it if they could.

He was executed, the precise detail doesnt bother me that much.

I would expect that the administration is quite happy for the world to know that they executed him, but at the same time they cant quite say it that openly as its not the done thing and Im sure there are some pesky legal issues.

Come on man, this is almost as transparent as it gets when it comes to high stakes issues of 'security' and the rest of that murky world. Wanted dead or alive is a pretty clear message of intent, with an emphasis on the word dead, and just because Obama doesnt do the wild west rhetoric doesnt mean that anything really changed once Bush was gone.

If he was captured alive he should have been taken alive and put on trial.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

it kinda looks glued-on actually.

There hasn't been a live President since Eisenhower. After how much trouble he was to the M/IC, they've used Disney Animatronic ones ever since.

 

[Spymaster]

If he was captured alive he should have been taken alive and put on trial.

Why?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Nah. Carter's was exceptional and he didn't lose because of that. Carter lost because he was a terrible president.

At least he didn't run up the deficit like the guy who followed him.

Deficits since 1942:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

 

[teqniq]

There hasn't been a live President since Eisenhower. After how much trouble he was to the M/IC, they've used Disney Animatronic ones ever since.

LOL

 

[dylans]

Why?

Because nation states should obey the rules of international law. This was an opportunity to break with the Bush doctrine of trampling over international codes of conduct and a chance to act according to the standards of democracy that the US claims to stand by.

 

[dilute micro]

At least he didn't run up the deficit like the guy who followed him.

Deficits since 1942:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Won't stop you from voting for Obama in 12.

 

[elbows]

If he was captured alive he should have been taken alive and put on trial.

Such concepts were never part of this particular game. It was clear very early on that the moral high ground would not be taken, that in a world where such noble ideas are often only paid lip service to at te best of times, it certainly wasnt going to go down like that at the worst of times. The Harold Pinter rant about 'you see this fist', thats what we are dealing with here, you know it, so rather than wear out the game of holding the US to a standard that we know it will not live up to by the very nature of how it maintains and utilises power around the globe, lets save that stuff for when the future of a whole nation is at stake.

Speaking of which, you care about Pakistan and worry about what a changing US approach may do to that country. Well I reckon that taking bin Laden alive would not have been to Pakistans liking either, they want to draw a line under things as quickly as possible and a trial could have brought about even more damaging pressure on the US-Pakistani relationship than the nightmare scenarios on this front of which you have recently spoken.

 

[elbows]

This was an opportunity to break with the Bush doctrine of trampling over international codes of conduct and a chance to act according to the standards of democracy that the US claims to stand by.

Im not sure that doctrine was new with Bush, rather he was just more blatant about it.

 

[dilute micro]

Because nation states should obey the rules of international law. This was an opportunity to break with the Bush doctrine of trampling over international codes of conduct and a chance to act according to the standards of democracy that the US claims to stand by.

international law is clown law. How would democracy have worked in this case? Sending in the seals would have been put to a vote?

 

[Spymaster]

<Edit> What Elbows said ^^^^.

 

[Yossarian]

Show me a photo that doesn't show two bullet holes in the back of his head

I don't see what that would prove - does anybody think the Navy SEALs would have been to squeamish to execute him with a bullet to the front of the head?

Jay Carney, White House spokesman, said that bin Laden had "resisted" capture or surrender, leaving SEALs no option but to kill him.

John Brennan, Mr Obama's counter-terrorism chief, said that the SEALs would have accepted surrender only if they were 100 per cent sure that he "did not pose any type of threat whatsoever". That included the certainty that bin Laden was not wearing a suicide belt under his clothes.

Sounds like the only resistance bin Laden would have had to offer to get shot would have been to look like he was going to put his hand in his pocket or something, I expect his death would have looked very much like an execution.

 

[teqniq]

Its all a dirty old game of cowboys Thankyou and good night.

 

[Spymaster]

Sounds like the only resistance bin Laden would have had to offer to get shot would have been to look like he was going to put his hand in his pocket or something .....

His card was marked the moment the helicopters took off. If he'd been naked and tied to a flagpole they'd still have shot him.

They went there to kill him.

Job done.