Osama bin Laden killed by US forces in Pakistan

[lopsidedbunny]

We now know this story is bullshit. Bin Laden was completely unarmed. The "million dollar mansion" was a decrepid mouldy run down house, the woman killed wasn't his wife and not only was he not hiding behind her, she was in an entirely different room. Now it appears he may have been executed after capture.

a valid point there was a lot of very odd body language going from the security expert from the U.S. government. It would be nice to be told the truth and show the bloody picture to give us a closure this is the day of the internet of twitter and so on, no longer tied to the words of the state. I just rewatched Saddam son getting killed by a anti-tank rocket in their hide out and Saddam getting hung lived via a mobile phone. I can only think it's a Democratic party in charge and not the Republican party for this slight turn around of hiding us the images...

 

[elbows]

In your haste to believe the entire narrative of the Obama administration you are putting to one side your critical faculties and neglecting to ask perfectly reasonable questions that are necessary to separate propaganda from truth. The refusal to provide evidence of the events or the order of the events allows the administration to spin a narrative that may not be the truth. you are allowing him to.

When people take on an almost mythical status, you'll be bloody lucky to ever separate propaganda from truth, dead or alive.

 

[editor]

In your haste to believe the entire narrative of the Obama administration you are putting to one side your critical faculties and neglecting to ask perfectly reasonable questions that are necessary to separate propaganda from truth. ....

But that's exactly what you've just done. You've chosen to believe the second more damning account over the first, even though it comes from the same, sole source.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

a valid point there was a lot of very odd body language going from the security expert from the U.S. government.

Would imagine that security expert was 1000's of miles away from the action and has no real idea of what went on.

Whatever Obama watched on that 'live feed' was probably pretty shite viewing, unless the SEALS brought a cameraman with them.

 

[dylans]

But that's exactly what you've just done. You've chosen to believe the second more damning account over the first, even though it comes from the same, sole source.

No, I haven't. I have no idea if he was shot after capture or not. My point is that information that can give an accurate account of what happened is being with held and a contradictory story is being spun and the truth is being lost

 

[elbows]

Yes. And quite obviously this is where all the upcoming conspiraloonery is going to be focused. Unfortunately I fail to see that the US can provide any evidence to prevent this.

I dont know what happened with your use of the quote function but it wasnt me who said those words.

It actually suits those conspiracy theorists who want a nice simplified idea of US terror funding etc for this stuff not to be probed further. Rather than get presented with a load of dull evidence that leads them to make arses of themselves with their sloppy analysis, they are free to speculate forever about what bin Laden may have said if interviewed by Charlie Sheen rather than shot.

 

[Spymaster]

I dont know what happened with your use of the quote function .....

Me neither.

I think this was the part of your post that I was agreeing with:

Of course they are not going to want to go over that particular part of history ...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No, I haven't. I have no idea if he was shot after capture or not. My point is that information that can give an accurate account of what happened is being with held and a contradictory story is being spun and the truth is being lost

which truth is being lost though? The details of this particular operation seem a pretty minor truth to me.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

No, I haven't. I have no idea if he was shot after capture or not. My point is that information that can give an accurate account of what happened is being with held and a contradictory story is being spun and the truth is being lost

Just ask any police officer who's taken a single crime report--contradictory stories are an everyday occurence. There's no magic formula to tell if someone's lying. When you really worry is when too many people tell the same story in the same words.

 

[editor]

No, I haven't. I have no idea if he was shot after capture or not. My point is that information that can give an accurate account of what happened is being with held and a contradictory story is being spun and the truth is being lost

Surely the very fact that the information has been constantly-changing, contradictory and ultimately not exactly painting the US in the most positive light kinda torpedoes the notion that we're being fed a super slick slab of propaganda?

If this is US propaganda, they're clearly not very good at it.

 

[dylans]

which truth is being lost though? The details of this particular operation seem a pretty minor truth to me.

I would think the question of whether or not he died in a firefight or if he was executed after capture to be more than a minor truth wouldn't you?

 

[dylans]

Surely the very fact that the information has been constantly-changing, contradictory and ultimately not exactly painting the US in the most positive light kinda torpedoes the notion that we're being fed a super slick slab of propaganda?

If this is US propaganda, they're clearly not very good at it.

Bollocks the initial report that painted Bin Laden as a coward sending his minions out to die whilst living in a million dollar mansion and shooting at troops while hiding behind the skirts of a woman was pure unadulterated propaganda and it was splashed across the worlds newspapers.

and it wasn't just Brennan either. This crap was spun by "senior defence officials" too

At a Pentagon briefing earlier in the day, a senior defense official said bin Laden used a woman as a human shield so he could fire shots. "He was firing behind her," the official said.
In another background briefing early Monday morning, a senior administration official also said bin Laden put up a fight. "He did resist the assault force. And he was killed in a firefight," the official said.

but hey all this speculation could be ended quite easily if the Obama administration chose to release a single scrap of evidence of what actually happened . They haven't.

As for the so called mansion? Have you seen it?

 

[editor]

Bollocks the initial report that painted Bin Laden as a coward sending his minions out to die whilst living in a million dollar mansion and shooting at troops while hiding behind the skirts of a woman was pure unadulterated propaganda and it was splashed across the worlds newspapers.

Yes. And where did the later reports come from? Go on, try and think this one through.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

no not really. It's a long way down on the list of things I'd like to know the truth about. A very long way down

 

[Spymaster]

I would think the question of whether or not he died in a firefight or if he was executed after capture to be more than a minor truth wouldn't you?

He didn't die in a firefight, at least not one that he was participating in, the US have said he was unarmed. He was almost certainly executed.

Why does this surprise you?

 

[editor]

Oh, and when a newspaper report says, "a senior defense official said..." and then doesn't actually name the person, then it's most likely the journo filling in the gaps themselves.

 

[dylans]

Yes. And where did the later reports come from? Go on, try and think this one through.

I can tell you exactly where the second report came from. Numerous officials who were falling over to contradict each other. One of them was White House spokesman Jay Carney

White House spokesman Jay Carney at Tuesday's briefing provided a fresh official "narrative" of the assault, noting "What is true is that we provided a great deal of information in great haste" yesterday "and obviously some of the information came in piece by piece and is being reviewed and updated."
As the U.S. assault team entered the room where bin Laden was with his wife, she rushed the "assaulter" and was shot in the leg, Carney said. Bin Laden was also shot as he resisted the "assaulter." He "was not armed" but "resistance does not require a firearm," Carney said.

"It was a highly volatile firefight. He resisted. The U.S. personnel on the ground handled themselves with the utmost professionalism," Carney said.

My point is not about the truth or otherwise of this or that narrative. My point is that by denying to the public all and every piece of evidence they retain the monopoly on the narrative and in that monopoly truth is being replaced with propaganda. That doesn't bother you, ok. It bothers me. Not least because there are more important questions here. Questions like the knowledge and role of Pakistan in this assault. Questions that it is clear we will have as little luck unravelling as we do the truth of the events of that morning

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Oh, and when a newspaper report says, "a senior defense official said..." and then doesn't actually name the person, then it's most likely the journo filling in the gaps themselves.

There was a leak somewhere. Google reported that searches for the name "bin Laden" peaked before the raid was announced.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/bin-laden-google-searches_n_857267.html

 

[dylans]

He didn't die in a firefight, at least not one that he was participating in, the US have said he was unarmed. He was almost certainly executed.

Why does this surprise you?

It doesn't surprise me. It annoys me to discover we are being lied to

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It doesn't surprise me. It annoys me to discover we are being lied to

"They lie to everybody; they lie to the fucking fish. Where do you think you're so special?"

 

[dylans]

Interesting article here about the photo of Obama and co watching the assault on Bin Laden. He notes something I hadn't really noticed. Look where the pres is sitting

No, not the soon-to-be-released Bin Laden-shot-in-the-head photo (which could become one of the most viewed photographs in history), but the photo of the President and his advisers in the White House situation room. Why amazing? Because the President seems so small and peripheral to the action. He is hunched down, seated on the margins of the meeting, seemingly trying not to take up space. It appears as if he couldn't even find a place to put his jacket. By contrast, Tom Donilon, the national security adviser, practically bestrides the room like a Colossus (an affable Colossus, if you know him). I was struck, when I saw this photo, that the Bush White House would have ever released a similar photograph. This is not to cast aspersions on Bush, but could you seriously imagine his public relations releasing an image of him leading from behind, as it were?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/a-revealing-photo/238284/

 

[Spymaster]

It annoys me to discover we are being lied to

Where are we being lied to?

The initial reports that he was hiding behind a skirt, AK47 flaming, has now been updated and the error accepted. We're now at "he was unarmed but we shot him anyway".

What's the problem?

 

[dylans]

Where are we being lied to?

The initial reports that he was hiding behind a skirt, AK47 flaming, has now been updated and the error accepted. We're now at "he was unarmed but we shot him anyway".

What's the problem?

That he may have been executed after capture

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Interesting article here about the photo of Obama and co watching the assault on Bin Laden. He notes something I hadn't really noticed. Look where the pres is sitting

The President is a rarified Constitutional Law Professor. Once the order is given, what possible use could he be?

And why not look appalled? Ordering someone's death is an appalling thing. And it's a different thing to order it than it is to watch it live on television.

 

[Spymaster]

That he may have been executed after capture

Ok, and what evidence would you like the US to produce to assuage this fear?

More to the point, what do they have to gain by providing it?

 

[dylans]

Ok, and what evidence would you like the US to produce to assuage this fear?

Show me a photo that doesn't show two bullet holes in the back of his head

 

[dylans]

The President is a rarified Constitutional Law Professor. Once the order is given, what possible use could he be?

And why not look appalled? Ordering someone's death is an appalling thing. And it's a different thing to order it than it is to watch it live on television.

I think you are missing the point of the article. They guy is saying that it is confidence in power that allows Obama to take a back seat. Would Bush have ever released a photo like that. Actually I think you do get the point but you are just being a contrarian tit (and no one mentioned his being "appalled" ffs)

 

[editor]

There was a leak somewhere. Google reported that searches for the name "bin Laden" peaked before the raid was announced.

Rumour started on Twitter and off it went.

 

[Spymaster]

Show me a photo that doesn't show two bullet holes in the back of his head

You don't think they could produce such a photo quicker than you can say "NASA does Photoshop" if they wanted to?

 

[editor]

Show me a photo that doesn't show two bullet holes in the back of his head

If he's not dead, then the terrorists have the means to totally humiliate the US by getting him to knock out another video. Besides, if you saw the photo you'd only declare it a fake.