Orca kills keeper in Seaworld, Florida - cover up in progress

[Johnny Canuck3]

Why would you want to do that? Are you after his ancestral lands?

If I wanted desert, I'd pick up a property near Taos New Mexico. American real estate is going for a song these days.

 

[ymu]

Cool. But if you took him away and put him in a flat, are you doing an injustice?

Kidnapping and false imprisonment are unjust, so yes. Is this a serious question?

 

[gavman]

A bunch of bastards that have been funding conservation and breeding programs for over 40 years.

isn't that what circuses used to say?

 

[gavman]

tbh whilst i am not a fan of keeping wild animals in captivity sea world have very much been at the forefront of development positive training methods such as clicker and target training

and this helps the orcas how?

or does it just mean that it's not necessary to be quite as cruel as we used to, in order to get the animals to do pointless tricks for our entertainment?

 

[gavman]

Perhaps you should be on the workers side against a company that makes its employees work in unsafe conditions with an animal that has already killed two other people.

she chose to do it, and regularly went on television promoting the business

zero sympathy for her, i'm afraid. she's just a screw who got her come uppance

 

[gavman]

Cunt. A woman is dead

woman-captor
orca-captive

captive kills captor = natural justice

i'm sorry, but she deserves no sympathy

 

[girasol]

Oh, look! We're suddenly in
Politics, protest and current affairs > world politics, current affairs and news

yes, interesting that. Not even sure what fits in General anymore!

and then this thread which is about a tv programme is in general: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=317619

 

[girasol]

woman-captor
orca-captive

captive kills captor = natural justice

i'm sorry, but she deserves no sympathy

yeah, but we all know that human life is worth more than any other life... and if you don't agree with that there's something wrong with you.

oh, and we also have the right to destroy all animal's natural environments to accommodate our ever growing population.

 

[BlackArab]

Perhaps you should be on the workers side against a company that makes its employees work in unsafe conditions with an animal that has already killed two other people.

Make its employees? Fuck her, she willingly took the shilling no one forced her into it.

 

[fractionMan]

"she had it coming."

 

[fractionMan]

she chose to do it, and regularly went on television promoting the business

zero sympathy for her, i'm afraid. she's just a screw who got her come uppance

Her and everyone that owns a pet imo. The evil bastards.

 

[Idris2002]

If you take a Bushman out of the Kalahari, put some clothes on him, give him an education, then give him a job as a mailroom clerk, and a one-bedroom flat in London, have you done him an injustice?

He can't hunt.

Jesus H. Christ. I know you like to stir the pot but this is pretty outrageous even by your standards.

In Namibia, the San are already finding their ability to hunt eroded as their lands are swiped for commercial agriculture, and they are reduced to a state of utter proletarianisation on local farms (both black and white owned), where they are regularly cheated out of their wages.

I have a paper on this issue, btw - pm with an email address if you'd like me to pass it on.

 

[Idris2002]

What you're suggesting is tantamount to an arrogant 19th century experiment.

In fairness to our trolling Canuckistani friend, 19th century experiments on e.g. The San involved putting them in zoos (really - actual zoos).

 

[ymu]

Slavery was actually just a mass social work project. Free transport, housing and a job for life. What's not to like?

 

[Thora]

Her and everyone that owns a pet imo. The evil bastards.

If you're keeping your pet wild orca in a swimming pool then yes.

 

[girasol]

Turns out that

Tilly had been captured in the wild. He was caught near Iceland aged about two years old in 1983 and has lived in captivity ever since.

Why did they capture him? He wasn't even in born in captivity.

 

[girasol]

Slavery was actually just a mass social work project. Free transport, housing and a job for life. What's not to like?

 

[tim]

Arrogant western fool. The San already has an education, a job, clothes, a home and most importantly, relationships with his kith and kin (social group).

Patronising Western racist, perhaps. It's not really for you to decide what does or does not make anyone regardlesss of their cultural background happy. Some San may be happy with their present lifestyle others maybe not. Many may want to live in the modern world but keep a few of the old traditions going.I like drinking in country pubs and watching the odd Morris Dancer, but I do not hanker after the lifestyle of my medieval peasant ancestors.

There's a risk that as well as trying to turn some animals into pseudo-humans we also try to turn some groups of people into endangered species, that have to be preserved in their quaint traditional misery.

 

[ymu]

Perhaps we should draw a line somewhere. How about at kidnapping and false imprisonment?

 

[tim]

Jesus H. Christ. I know you like to stir the pot but this is pretty outrageous even by your standards.

In Namibia, the San are already finding their ability to hunt eroded as their lands are swiped for commercial agriculture, and they are reduced to a state of utter proletarianisation on local farms (both black and white owned), where they are regularly cheated out of their wages.

I have a paper on this issue, btw - pm with an email address if you'd like me to pass it on.

Yes but saying that powerless people have a right to be free from exloitation from one group, doesn't mean that the only alternative is having to live under the well-meaning patronage of another. I see no excuse for denying some groups of people the very real benefits of living in the twenty-first century.

 

[tim]

Make its employees? Fuck her, she willingly took the shilling no one forced her into it.

Employers have a duty of care to their employees, puting them in danger violates that duty.

 

[Jonti]

I'm sure the USA authorities will be grateful for your advice.

 

[tim]

I think if you killed a chimpanze for no good reason it would be tantamount to murder.

And a cow, sheep, mouse , cockroach, ant etc; Where do you draw the line? And how do you define a good reason: satiating hunger , keeping yourself warm, medical testing, stopping them from nibbling your chocolate overnight.

Killing a huge dangerous animal that would not be capable of surving on its own in the wild would not, at least to me , seem an unreasonable thing to do.

 

[Jonti]

You want Tillicum killed then?

 

[tim]

What you're suggesting is tantamount to an arrogant 19th century experiment.

What, Allowing poor third world people to live the kind of life that is taken for granted by those of us in the West and the elites and middle classes in their own?

 

[tim]

You want Tillicum killed then?

Seems like a sensible option to me

 

[Jonti]

But you're not a very sensible person!

 

[felixthecat]

Hmmm....

Firstly, if you play with very large wild carnivores sooner or later you will come a cropper . The trainer knew the risks - she wouldn't be in her job if she didn't understand the way orcas behave. Sad she was killed, but hey, its a WILD animal fergawdsake! It doesn't understand she cant spend more than 2 minutes underwater to start with!

Secondly, what do they do with the whale now? From what I understand of orcas they have very close relationships in their particular pod and are very social animals - this animal has been taken away from his social/family circle. Would he be seen an an interloper to existing pods, particularly as an adult male? Would he be able to hunt by himself as orcas normal hunt as a team? if not he would starve to death. Someone who knows more about this please help me here! Under those circumstances it would be as cruel to release him as to keep him in captivity - maybe euthanising him would be the kindest option? I dunno - I'm just speculating.

I suppose it all boils down to the simple fact of it is NOT a good idea to keep wild animals in captivity, and don't even THINK of training them for our own amusement. If you do and it all goes tits up you have no-one to blame but yourself.

 

[girasol]

Employers have a duty of care to their employees, puting them in danger violates that duty.

I'm pretty sure she was aware of the risks.

has anyone ever watched the documentary 'Cat Dancers'? Strange, fascinating, and another cautionary tale: (although you couldn't help but like the people keeping the tigers captive)

 

[ymu]

I'm pretty sure she was aware of the risks.

That's not actually a reason to absolve the employer of responsibility. They are able to exploit people who love working with animals in order to make vast profits whilst paying very little. The buck stops with them.