Orca kills keeper in Seaworld, Florida - cover up in progress

[ymu]

I'm pretty sure she was aware of the risks.

has anyone ever watched the documentary 'Cat Dancers'? Strange, fascinating, and another cautionary tale: (although you couldn't help but like the people keeping the tigers captive)

Fucking idiots though.

 

[girasol]

That's not actually a reason to absolve the employer of responsibility. They are able to exploit people who love working with animals in order to make vast profits whilst paying very little. The buck stops with them.

Actually, that's a fair point. I agree. The trainer was absolutely crazy about whales, they all are, and believed she had a dream job. Yes, it must be amazing to work with them, shame it has to be like this, with them captive, for entertainment.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Jesus H. Christ. I know you like to stir the pot but this is pretty outrageous even by your standards.

You can forego the faux outrage.

The question goes to the essence of what is 'natural'.

 

[girasol]

"Expert" thinks attack may have been premeditated:

 

[ymu]

"Expert" thinks attack may have been premeditated:

He starts off by claiming/implying that this is the first attack by an orca in the 60 years they've been in captivity. This is the third death associated with this orca and there's loads of attack videos on youtube ffs!

He just wants his face on the telly. He clearly isn't an expert.

E2A: Fuck's sake. He gives the date of the first captive orca as the 1960s and then states "this is the first attack in 60-70 years". Total self-publicist.

 

[Jonti]

It's hard to know what an Orca understands.

This true story about an Orca called Luna was on TV here recently ... (may only be accessible in the UK or via a suitable internet proxy)

 

[girasol]

He starts off by claiming/implying that this is the first attack by an orca in the 60 years they've been in captivity. This is the third death associated with this orca and there's loads of attack videos on youtube ffs!

He just wants his face on the telly. He clearly isn't an expert.

yep, I was thinking the same thing (about there being other attacks).

Hence the quotes around "Expert"

Even when people say how intelligent they are, as Jonti said, it's very hard to know how or what they think, we don't speak the same language... Like in the documentary above, about Luna, when the presenter says they were like two kids in a playground who didn't understand each other but played nonetheless (beautiful that was)

 

[stanie]

Tough shit, people who abuse animals get no sympathy from me. Mourn her death? Like fuck i will.

 

[Jonti]

BBC reports on the mistake that killed Dawn Brancheau, and the show goes on ...

Jim Atchison said ... it was believed an orca being trained by Dawn Brancheau dragged her to her death by drowning after her long ponytail swung out in front of it.

Training, huh?

 

[fractionMan]

If you're keeping your pet wild orca in a swimming pool then yes.

Or any kind of animal in a cage. Gerbils? Parrots? Snakes?

 

[invisibleplanet]

BBC reports on the mistake that killed Dawn Brancheau, and the show goes on ... Training, huh?

The slapping tail? That's used (with other Orcas) to gather the herring into a bundle.

The beaching onto side of pool? That's used to snatch walrus/seals off the beach.

The 'tricks' above are all part of the hunting strategy.

 

[Thora]

Or any kind of animal in a cage. Gerbils? Parrots? Snakes?

Bit of a difference between a reptile and a large, intelligent mammal though isn't there? Or a rodent, bred as a pet.

I'd think caged birds are wrong too though, and would never keep a wild bird caged as a pet.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Let's look at how the Orcas are acquired, how well they do in captivity, and find out more about the Sea World breeding programme, shall we?
http://www.inkokomo.com/dolphin/orca.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_orcas

Look at Tilly's dorsal fin.

The environment cannnot be good for these captured Orcas.

Surely marine biologists can study these creatures in the wild?

 

[invisibleplanet]

.

 

[fractionMan]

Bit of a difference between a reptile and a large, intelligent mammal though isn't there? Or a rodent, bred as a pet.

I'd think caged birds are wrong too though, and would never keep a wild bird caged as a pet.

You've got a point tbh, but to say the woman (who probably loved the animals fwiw) deserved it is a bit much imo.

 

[Jonti]

Surely marine biologists can study these creatures in the wild?

It's indefensible to keep these serene and powerful creatures in this way.

They will interact with humans in a friendly way, so there can be no scientific rationale, as far as I can see.

 

[Thora]

You've got a point tbh, but to say the woman (who probably loved the animals fwiw) deserved it is a bit much imo.

Really? If she loved the animals why would she want to work for a company that abused and exploited them.

 

[fractionMan]

probably because she didn't see it as abuse or exploitation.

Not that I can really guess what she thought.

 

[free spirit]

Hmmm....

Firstly, if you play with very large wild carnivores sooner or later you will come a cropper . The trainer knew the risks - she wouldn't be in her job if she didn't understand the way orcas behave. Sad she was killed, but hey, its a WILD animal fergawdsake! It doesn't understand she cant spend more than 2 minutes underwater to start with!

I watched this programme last year that showed Orca's who'd learnt to kill great white sharks by knocking them onto their back, which puts them into a trance, then holding them there until they drowned from the lack of water flowing over their fins.

This orca knew exactly what it was doing. It deliberately killed this trainer, no real question about that IMO. It's very sad for the family and obviously the person killed, but it's an orca who's tolerating the presence of their trainers, and the fact of his ongoing incarceration.

3 kills would seem to indicate it's not happy with it's situation, and should really be let go back into the wild to live out the rest of his days as nature intended.

Secondly, what do they do with the whale now? From what I understand of orcas they have very close relationships in their particular pod and are very social animals - this animal has been taken away from his social/family circle. Would he be seen an an interloper to existing pods, particularly as an adult male? Would he be able to hunt by himself as orcas normal hunt as a team? if not he would starve to death. Someone who knows more about this please help me here! Under those circumstances it would be as cruel to release him as to keep him in captivity - maybe euthanising him would be the kindest option? I dunno - I'm just speculating.

I'm pretty sure that even after all this time there's a fair chance that he'd find some living relatives, and as a 2 year old when captured he'll have had 2 years worth of migrations to have learnt, so if they put him in the right place at the right time (ie. same time and location he was caught) I reckon there's a very good chance he'd be ok.



*I love my wildlife documentaries

 

[free spirit]

having said that, it might not be such a great idea to release and Orca back into the wild who's figured out about killing us as they do seem to teach each other their tricks, so some whale watcher might start getting a bit more up close and personal than they'd intended

 

[Jonti]

One of those "kills" got a Darwin Award

 

[Jonti]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/species/Killer_Whale

Loads of vids!

 

[UnderOpenSky]

One of those "kills" got a Darwin Award

Actually that made me feel sad....some of those darwin awards are funny, but a lot are just plain nasty.

 

[cesare]

It is a bit sad that she lost her life. But she must have known the risks. If you enter a pen of marine or land wildlife, they ain't going to behave like domesticated animals all the time. Her job had that danger inherent to it. It's not the orca's fault, and it's not her fault either.

 

[Jonti]

Actually that made me feel sad....some of those darwin awards are funny, but a lot are just plain nasty.

I didn't like the tone either.

So go on then, which is your favourite?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Probably the one where the bloke strapped the jet engine to his car, although that may not be real.

 

[Thora]

probably because she didn't see it as abuse or exploitation.

Not that I can really guess what she thought.

I can't see how that could be the case though - it's dorsal fin was all bent over, surely she could see it wasn't a happy animal that loved playing with her? Probably arrogance more than stupidity I guess.

 

[Jonti]

Probably the one where the bloke strapped the jet engine to his car, although that may not be real.

This one?

But the Winner for 1996, Macho Man, has, unbelievably, been confirmed

 

[weltweit]

Apparently displays are starting again at Sea World.

And Tilly is still part of them.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Apparently displays are starting again at Sea World.

And Tilly is still part of them.

I think that Tilly the Orca will die soon.

It's so very sad, but he's being kept because they use his sperm to create more captive whales, very few of whom survive because their mothers were stolen from the wild so young that they had no opportunity to learn from their group how to be mothers to their calves.