WouldBe
Dislicksick
No it's not FFS most grazing in the UK is done in fields or on hillsides.
Opinion: "The End of Meat Is Here" - NY Times
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ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
Revealed: industrial-scale beef farming comes to the UK
Investigation uncovers about a dozen intensive beef units, despite assurances that US-style practices would not happen here
editor
hiraethified
No it's not FFS most grazing in the UK is done in fields or on hillsides.
Ending factory farming
Factory Farming is everywhere. Globally, around 92 billion farm animals are factory farmed every year. These intensive systems put production above all else, creating vast quantities of seemingly cheap meat, milk and eggs.
www.ciwf.org.uk
Factory Farming Is Sweeping the U.K.
Two British reporters discuss their recent investigation tracking the rise of factory farming in the United Kingdom and its resemblance to American practices.
UK has nearly 800 livestock mega farms, investigation reveals
Exclusive: US-style intensive factory farming of poultry, pigs and cattle is sweeping across the British countryside – raising concerns over animal cruelty
Intensive farming in the UK, by numbers
The number of intensive farms in the UK has risen by a quarter with many so big they fit the definition of a US mega-farm.
www.thebureauinvestigates.com
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
My personal opinion is that canola shouldn't be fed to humans. Its only been through intensive breeding that they were able to develop a variety of rape seed that contained less erucic acid. It didn't enter the human food chain in large amounts until about 1974. Before that it was used as lamp oil in the middle ages and for industrial lubricants in more recent times. It was marketers that changed the name to canola, and sold it to us as a "heart healthy food." While this variety contains less erucic acid than the original rape seed varieties, it still contains some. Many people still can't tolerate it, and I think its partly responsible for our high levels of food allergies now.
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Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Ending factory farming
Factory Farming is everywhere. Globally, around 92 billion farm animals are factory farmed every year. These intensive systems put production above all else, creating vast quantities of seemingly cheap meat, milk and eggs.
Factory Farming Is Sweeping the U.K.
Two British reporters discuss their recent investigation tracking the rise of factory farming in the United Kingdom and its resemblance to American practices.civileats.com
UK has nearly 800 livestock mega farms, investigation reveals
Exclusive: US-style intensive factory farming of poultry, pigs and cattle is sweeping across the British countryside – raising concerns over animal crueltywww.theguardian.com
Intensive farming in the UK, by numbers
The number of intensive farms in the UK has risen by a quarter with many so big they fit the definition of a US mega-farm.
So, you are both right (you and wouldbe) - most pig and poultry is intensively reared (and as I said, the two sectors combined make up 80% of all meat consumption in the UK). A minority of beef is intensively finished, and most of that will have spent most of its life grazing.
No sheep are in intensive systems (that I'm aware of) in the UK.
editor
hiraethified
Wow. This weird denial really is running out of control. Why are you suddenly singling out sheep when the conversation has been about all meat production?
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
You're really missing a point here. You simply can't consume meat at our current levels without factory farming and its adverse environmental effects, inhumane effect on animals, and bad health outcomes for humans.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Sheep farming has ruined many a landscape
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Im answering both your points about animals in intensive systems.
I don't know where you got "denial" from the phrase "you're both right".....
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
No, you appear to be missing the point, because if you read my posts, I've agreed that a reduction in consumption wouldn't be a bad thing.
I disagreed with two notions:
1) That the replacement of meat with highly processed plant and synthetic foods was a "good thing" (as per the article posted in the OP) and
2) That a reduction in meat consumption will stop deforestation for soya and/or will intrinsically lead to positive environmental outcomes.
In my opinion, the only way to ensure positive outcomes for the environment and the climate is to tackle the supermarkets relentless pursuit of market share, which goes hand in hand with high throughput, low margin systems and the agrifood supply chain.
At the same time, industries that are far worse polluters (but seem to have a much better PR machine) ought to be tackled. The notion that BP, for example can be green, simply because it plants a load of trees is absurd, yet it seems people swallow it.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Except the conversation at the time you jumped in was about animals maintaining habitats creating bio diversity something that chickens and pigs don't do.
editor
hiraethified
And here we go again. Denial and deflection. Sigh.
Literally NO ONE in this thread has supported or advocated your strawman deluxe claim about BP being green because it plants trees, so why even mention it?
And I'll think you'll find the meat industry has quite formidable PR too, although this article from Ireland really sums up how desperate some are becoming:
Ireland's Meat and Dairy Farmers Bring in Tobacco PR Firm to Tackle Image Problem
Ireland’s embattled beef and dairy sector has taken the unusual step of bringing in a public relations and lobbying firm with links to the tobacco and agri-chemicals industries to defend the sector against a growing chorus of critics. A consortium of farmers, food processors and state agencies...
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
That's pretty well out of left field and certainly a derail. No one is arguing that the energy sector won't have to be tackled too. Climate change is an "all hands on deck" situation similar to WWII. We're going to have to make massive changes in the very near future to avoid the worst aspects of it. Personally, I think collapse is inevitable because we aren't willing to make even small changes, but you have to try. Changing our meat consumption is just one of the many things we'll have to do to reach carbon neutrality. This thread is further proof that we won't do it.
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Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
And here we go again. Denial and deflection. Sigh.
Literally NO ONE in this thread has supported or advocated your strawman deluxe claim about BP being green because it plants trees, so why even mention it?
And I'll think you'll find the meat industry has quite formidable PR too, although this article from Ireland really sums up how desperate some are becoming:
Ireland's Meat and Dairy Farmers Bring in Tobacco PR Firm to Tackle Image Problem
Ireland’s embattled beef and dairy sector has taken the unusual step of bringing in a public relations and lobbying firm with links to the tobacco and agri-chemicals industries to defend the sector against a growing chorus of critics. A consortium of farmers, food processors and state agencies...www.desmog.co.uk
I wasn't using it as a strawman, I was using it as an example of another "just do this one easy thing" climate "fix" to illustrate my point, which was that management of the environment is actually fairly complex and sustainable solutions will depend on where on the globe you are.
Im surprised that it's taken agriculture so long to realise that it actually needs some PR, to be fair - the vegan lobby has been using PR to spread lies about agriculture for years (my particular favourite was PETA's advert implying that shearing sheep involves skinning them alive)....
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The meat eaters won't give up, they'll eat 'long pig' kebabs amidst the ruins
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
WouldBe
Dislicksick
You could help reach carbon neutrality by using bio fuels instead of fossil fuels but that would mean growing even more crops like soy and rape.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
I wasn't thinking about improving the soil I was thinking about keeping plants in check. There are quite a few rare plants grow in the Derbyshire dales that wouldn't be there if not for the sheep grazing the hillsides.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
The difficulty with that plan is that they think they'll be the kebab-er, rather than the kebab-ee.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
The decline of red meat in America (msnbc.com)
Per capita meat consumption in the US has been steadily declining. Its down a full 50 pounds since 1970, red meat accounts for half of that. You regularly see meat alternatives on the menu in even Burger King and McDonalds, not that I'm advocating for fast food. That large of a change takes time.
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Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
editor
hiraethified
There'd also be shit loads more wildlife around if it wasn't for large scale meat production and the industrial farming methods needed to sustain factory farming.
Why factory farming is not just cruel – but also a threat to all life on the planet
It’s time the world woke up to the real impact of modern, industrial farming, says Philip Lymbery, author of Farmageddon and the Deadzone
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That'll be the end of meat then. My mistake!Quite a few of us have cut well back.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
'Some of the darkest places in the world': Joaquin Phoenix on a photobook about slaughterhouses
In Hidden, 40 photographers go inside factory farms and abattoirs to create a global indictment of the meat industry. Warning: contains images you may find upsetting
editor
hiraethified
Disgusting.'Some of the darkest places in the world': Joaquin Phoenix on a photobook about slaughterhouses
In Hidden, 40 photographers go inside factory farms and abattoirs to create a global indictment of the meat industry. Warning: contains images you may find upsetting
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
It is pretty horrible. Even if we buy less, and more ethical, meat, ending animal life in the ways portrayed in those photos is disturbing.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
How so?
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Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Much of sheep farming land was once forested. Those bleak moors and dales aren’t all natural environments, even though there’s a certain rugged beauty to them.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
The increase in wild flowers due to sheep grazing leads to an increase in insects that feed off them and hence an increase in birds that feed off the insects. So meat production can lead to an increase in wildlife. Also letting sheep graze on hillsides keeps the bracken down which would rapidly take over which AFAIK is no use for anything.There'd also be shit loads more wildlife around if it wasn't for large scale meat production and the industrial farming methods needed to sustain factory farming.
Why factory farming is not just cruel – but also a threat to all life on the planet
It’s time the world woke up to the real impact of modern, industrial farming, says Philip Lymbery, author of Farmageddon and the Deadzone
If you let cows graze you get hay meadows which again results in more wildlife not less.
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