Operation Venetic - hundreds arrested for 'leading secret criminal lives', and £54m seized [so far]

[dylanredefined]

Bit like saying there are endless bent social workers,immigration officer, customs and excise , architects , accountants ,planning departments, solicitors , licensing . Yes where there is profit or gain there are friends to be made . You can extend this to car washes, nail parlours , door security . the music industry, sports and sports betting and countless others . Dont suppose that many start in those jobs thinking that being dodgy is the reason why they started in those occupations tbh.

Bribery here is £50 to look the other way.

Blackmail we have your internet history.

Coercion Your daughter walks down a busy road to school shame if something happened to her.etc
Sex illicit affair etc
The methods to turn someone are as old as the hills. All you need is time and money and of course a code of morals which allows you to ruin someones life for your gain.
Once listened to a spook explain how you would get anyone to do anything for you.
Lots of examples. All hypothetical of course.

 

[likesfish]

Got my notes on corruption with examples big problem in the prison service mostly low level but the cash was always available.

You'd have to be thick to take a few grand that you could get doing O/T.
Not a victimless crime either made the prisons worse spice is a horrible drug and families on the out suffer because somebody's paying

 

[xenon]

This shit is incredible. I need to read more about it. Read the llink FM posted yesterday. It's like something out of a Charlie Stross novel.

 

[dylanredefined]

This shit is incredible. I need to read more about it. Read the llink FM posted yesterday. It's like something out of a Charlie Stross novel.

It does doesn't ? An alternative reality where drugs deals and weapon shipments are the business aided by dodgy tech firms.
I wonder if enchrochat set up to sell to crims or crims found the network and the money was too good to turn down? Imagine being the tech guy who finds out exactly what your company does?
The article explains why the authorities admitted they had hacked the network as it is shut down. Like the fact some companies already stepped into fill the void.

 

[planetgeli]

I wonder if enchrochat set up to sell to crims or crims found the network and the money was too good to turn down?

Pretty sure it's A).

 

[dylanredefined]

Pretty sure it's A).

I wonder if they going to be charged or have an excuse. We just made a thing which has a totally legimate use. Not our fault crims use it for something else?

 

[planetgeli]

I wonder if they going to be charged or have an excuse. We just made a thing which has a totally legimate use. Not our fault crims use it for something else?

Yes, could well do that. It's a Dutch firm who seem to have marketed themselves as legitimate while it was obvious they weren't. Difference with Silk Road is that guy never marketed himself as legitimate and created an actual marketplace. Encryption on its own isn't illegal though.

 

[newbie]

I wonder if they going to be charged or have an excuse. We just made a thing which has a totally legimate use. Not our fault crims use it for something else?

is that not the argument Whatsapp, Telegram, Signal etc would use if they were broken and every 1/4 oz deal or anti government slogan exposed?

 

[two sheds]

Over here I'd imagine ignorance isn't an excuse for breaking the law, although the HSBC managers seemed to get away with it.

 

[xenon]

Yeah, in the Vice article FM posted, it mentions similar networks that were definitely set up by organised crime.

I mean of course we all use encryption for legit stuff but these phones weren't about keeping your bank details safe...

 

[xenon]

is that not the argument Whatsapp, Telegram, Signal etc would use if they were broken and every 1/4 oz deal or anti government slogan exposed?

This is a bit different. Everyone uses encrypted coms applications. You wouldn't put Royal Mail on trial because some drugs are posted.

You might put DeliverSafeLtd, on trial, if they were deliberately and knowingly supplying services to criminals.

 

[newbie]

This is a bit different. Everyone uses encrypted coms applications. You wouldn't put Royal Mail on trial because some drugs are posted.

You might put DeliverSafeLtd, on trial, if they were deliberately and knowingly supplying services to criminals.

Prove 'deliberately and knowingly' beyond reasonable doubt in this jurisdiction, irrespective of use in some other one? Good luck with that.

I'm not defending these people, anyone who pays a grand for a hardened phone and then a huge subscription has something to hide. The journo who wrote the Vice article, who's plainly playing for high stakes, appears to trust Signal, as apparently does Edward Snowden, so it's reasonable to ask why these people didn't. But then there is the complementary murkey story of the Israeli weapon Pegausus made by NSO, spyware sold only to goverments for so-called law enforcement but apparently used extensively against journalists and human rights activists.

 

[xenon]

Prove 'deliberately and knowingly' beyond reasonable doubt in this jurisdiction, irrespective of use in some other one? Good luck with that.

I'm not defending these people, anyone who pays a grand for a hardened phone and then a huge subscription has something to hide. The journo who wrote the Vice article, who's plainly playing for high stakes, appears to trust Signal, as apparently does Edward Snowden, so it's reasonable to ask why these people didn't. But then there is the complementary murkey story of the Israeli weapon Pegausus made by NSO, spyware sold only to goverments for so-called law enforcement but apparently used extensively against journalists and human rights activists.

I think cos Signal et al keep your messages secure between end points. But if you're nicked, there are powers to examine your phone or penalties for obstructing access to your phone. And once they're in your phone they can read stuff obviously. These other devices are designed to offer some plausible deniability, hiding the OS, or effectively self destruct.

And there's no reason why an average drug dealer would necessarily be a tech wizz, - able to use other available but less just works out of the box, solutions.

Yeah, the whole area of who gets to use what tech and for what purpose, is quite interesting / concerning. See concerns about which companies are involved in track and trace for a local example.

TechCrunch is now a part of Verizon Media

techcrunch.com

 

[LDC]

Wasn't Encrochat also used by celebs? Or at least that was the legitimate excuse for the company and tech starting.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I was wondering why my local dial-a- dealer hasn't answered his phone in three weeks ...

 

[Rosemary Jest]

How does this encrochat thing work? Can you only communicate with others with an encrochat phone, or does it just hide where the messages/calls come from? For instance, can you message someone from an encrochat phone via WhatsApp, the recipient receives the message, but it is from an unknown number? But then how would they know who it's from? Or is it a closed network where you need to use their messaging service?

Sorry, I know this might sound thick, just interested to know how these things work.

 

[dylanredefined]

While it works as an ordinary phone. The secure stuff needs another enrochat phone to call.

 

[dylanredefined]

I was wondering why my local dial-a- dealer hasn't answered his phone in three weeks ...

He has been nicked Or his supplier has.

 

[nogojones]

Bit like saying there are endless bent social workers,immigration officer, customs and excise , architects , accountants ,planning departments, solicitors , licensing . Yes where there is profit or gain there are friends to be made . You can extend this to car washes, nail parlours , door security . the music industry, sports and sports betting and countless others . Dont suppose that many start in those jobs thinking that being dodgy is the reason why they started in those occupations tbh.

I dunno. There's a few jobs and businesses there that I have always assumed as dodgy and the people starting them ain't doing it for the love of a good manicure, a shiney car and firm but fair doorstaff

 

[A380]

If only there were some way of people being able to buy the drugs they wanted without giving the whole trade to criminals who enslave the communities and people who grow them and have a way of selling it which didn’t involve kids from our poorest communities killing each other over the trade.

 

[The39thStep]

I dunno. There's a few jobs and businesses there that I have always assumed a dodgy and the people starting them ain't doing it for the love of a good manicure, a shiney car and firm but fair doorstaff

Used to be butchers and taxi firms years ago . Car washes were good for bent money as well

 

[A380]

Used to be butchers and taxi firms years ago . Car washes were good for bent money as well

Anything where you are providing a service that doesn’t depend on materials that much. Nail bars are great as are car washes as it’s almost impossible to show wether a place did 15 people or 150 customers in any given day and it’s normal to pay cash. If I had to launder loads of cash I’d have two nail bars and a car wash and pay my taxes on time.

 

[planetgeli]

Tanning salons were/are another example of money laundering places.

 

[nogojones]

I'm not gonna shed too many tears for all the big boys that will get done over this, but I am a bit concerned about impact on the drug trade. Disruption of supply will lead to more adulteration, with potentially fatal results, increased prices, which will lead to more acquisitive crime and turf wars as new markets suddenly become available to fight over.

Even though I fully understand it's utter cunts running the industry I still struggle to celebrate enforcement actions because no matter how big they are it's just pissing in the wind until we develop more humane drug policies

 

[Sprocket.]

Anything where you are providing a service that doesn’t depend on materials that much. Nail bars are great as are car washes as it’s almost impossible to show wether a place did 15 people or 150 customers in any given day and it’s normal to pay cash. If I had to launder loads of cash I’d have two nail bars and a car wash and pay my taxes on time.

Makes note on file.

 

[nogojones]

Tanning salons were/are another example of money laundering places.

Loads of takeaways and restaurants if we're making a big old list

 

[The39thStep]

Anything where you are providing a service that doesn’t depend on materials that much. Nail bars are great as are car washes as it’s almost impossible to show wether a place did 15 people or 150 customers in any given day and it’s normal to pay cash. If I had to launder loads of cash I’d have two nail bars and a car wash and pay my taxes on time.

Cash is the key . Casinos , fruit machines in betting shops , window cleaners but they are all well known targets

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Amateurs. If you want to wash serious wedge you need to get in the diamond game. That industry still deals in cash, lots of it. Establish yourself as a diamond dealer, shuttle between London and Antwerp and start increasing the amount of cash you deposit in your bank each week, after a short time the £10k limit where banks must report can be breached as they don't need to report regular business that deposits more than that. Once you're there you can start to introduce your drug dough.

 

[nogojones]

Amateurs. If you want to wash serious wedge you need to get in the diamond game. That industry still deals in cash, lots of it. Establish yourself as a diamond dealer, shuttle between London and Antwerp and start increasing the amount of cash you deposit in your bank each week, after a short time the £10k limit where banks must report can be breached as they don't need to report regular business that deposits more than that. Once you're there you can start to introduce your drug dough.

Or just have a quiet word with your local HSBC manager. They've laundered billions of Mexican and Coloumbian cartel money, they'll be cool with it

 

[planetgeli]

Loads of takeaways and restaurants if we're making a big old list

I wasn't. I thought we were talking identifiable niche businesses.