On Marxism-Leninism

[belboid]

(I've always thought Kayleigh by The Waterboys was ripe for reinterpretation with Lenin dancing in stilettos in the snow or whatever.)

Marillion

 

[Yugoslav]

Of all the Leninist states, you could probably do best making a case that Yugoslavia was in many ways better than what came after, though that's only on a cursory acquaintance with the history.

I agree. Yugoslavia was the closest to socialist perfection. Still the neoliberal IMF loans and the inner nationalism conducted by the Serbian bourgeoisie fucked it up in the end. Should have gone with Dolanc and you wouldn't have dealt with Milosevic that badly.

 

[JimW]

I agree. Yugoslavia was the closest to socialist perfection. Still the neoliberal IMF loans and the inner nationalism conducted by the Serbian bourgeoisie fucked it up in the end. Should have gone with Dolanc and you wouldn't have dealt with Milosevic that badly.

There is that thing that presumably all the seeds of that were there during the Yugoslav era, the various national elites waiting to break out etc.

 

[Sue]

Marillion

You're right of course. I blush for myself and for you.

(Do you remember
Lenin dancing in stilettos in the snow
When he realised
The Communards had been surpassed you know...)

 

[A380]

Yup. This is a Fabianite revisionist forum. I'm lovin' it!

See , I’m enjoying finding that my wanky reformism was in fact the dominant ideology on here.

 

[kebabking]

See , I’m enjoying finding that my wanky reformism was in fact the dominant ideology on here.

We're all Lib Dems now, Comrade...

 

[A380]

I’m impressed by the fact that Urban today is both Fabian and Fash. Two posters say it so it must be true…

 

[A380]

We're all Lib Dems now, Comrade...

Come the, reformist based, ‘revolution’ we will all be driving Volvos.

 

[danny la rouge]

I’m inmpressed by the fact that Urban today is both Fabian and Fash. Two posters say it so it must be true…

Fabian and Fash sounds like a hipster interior design company.

 

[danny la rouge]

You're right of course. I blush for myself and for you.

I knew as well but I thought “I’m fucked if I’m taking the hit: I’m not that pedantic!”

 

[Yugoslav]

There is that thing that presumably all the seeds of that were there during the Yugoslav era, the various national elites waiting to break out etc.

And it was none other than the Serb elite who were the most violent.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m inmpressed by the fact that Urban today is both Fabian and Fash. Two posters say it so it must be true…

Waiting for falangist and farageite

 

[CNT36]

Son, have you ever kissed a girl?

I hope you have paid all due royalties to Idris2002

 

[Yugoslav]

We're all Lib Dems now, Comrade...

Darn right you are a liberal democrat. Thank you for openly admitting that you're not a socialist.

"Just as the old opportunists and reformists betrayed Marxism-Leninism, the cause of the working class, of the revolution and of socialism, so do the modern revisionists betray these ideals and are pursuing the same road as their forerunners who are at the same time their spiritual inspirers. Those who have changed are not the social-democrats but the modern revisionists, who have fallen into the treacherous positions of social-democracy."

- The Modern Revisionists

 

[Pickman's model]

"We have already said above, and shall show more fully later, that the theory of Marx and Engels of the inevitability of a violent revolution refers to the bourgeois state. The latter cannot be superseded by the proletarian state (the dictatorship of the proletariat) through the process of ”withering away”, but, as a general rule, only through a violent revolution. The panegyric Engels sang in its honor, and which fully corresponds to Marx’s repeated statements (see the concluding passages of The Poverty of Philosophy[5] and the Communist Manifesto,[6] with their proud and open proclamation of the inevitability of a violent revolution; see what Marx wrote nearly 30 years later, in criticizing the Gotha Programme of 1875,[7] when he mercilessly castigated the opportunist character of that programme) — this panegyric is by no means a mere “impulse”, a mere declamation or a polemical sally. The necessity of systematically imbuing the masses with this and precisely this view of violent revolution lies at the root of the entire theory of Marx and Engels. The betrayal of their theory by the now prevailing social-chauvinist and Kautskyite trends expresses itself strikingly in both these trends ignoring such propaganda and agitation."

- The State and Revolution — Chapter 1

Still waiting for YOUR working rather than quotes that don't say quite what you think they do

 

[Pickman's model]

Darn right you are a liberal democrat. Thank you for openly admitting that you're not a socialist.

"Just as the old opportunists and reformists betrayed Marxism-Leninism, the cause of the working class, of the revolution and of socialism, so do the modern revisionists betray these ideals and are pursuing the same road as their forerunners who are at the same time their spiritual inspirers. Those who have changed are not the social-democrats but the modern revisionists, who have fallen into the treacherous positions of social-democracy."

- The Modern Revisionists

You're as much of a socialist as keir starmer is

 

[Yugoslav]

Still waiting for YOUR working rather than quotes that don't say quite what you think they do

It means you clearly have no intention to understand real socialist theory then.

 

[Pickman's model]

It means you clearly have no intention to understand real socialist theory then.

You don't, clearly, if you can't articulate your politics yourself

 

[Yugoslav]

You're as much of a socialist as keir starmer is

Hah. What does the Fabianite gentleman who has no interest in the working class have in common with a fellow anti-revisionist socialist like me and the rest of the unheard MLs, ostracized by the opportunists? For I am very clear with what I am doing with the quotations. I am presenting the obvious, primary, and solid evidence that socialism is not what many in the West think it is and that they're all, by default, opportunistic and revisionistic.

 

[A380]

It means you clearly have no intention to understand real socialist theory then.

That's you telt Pickman's model

 

[Pickman's model]

Hah. What does the Fabianite gentleman who has no interest in the working class have in common with a fellow anti-revisionist socialist like me and the rest of the unheard MLs, ostracized by the opportunists? For I am very clear with what I am doing with the quotations. I am presenting the obvious, primary, and solid evidence that socialism is not what many in the West think it is and that they're all, by default, opportunistic and revisionistic.

Yeh but you've yet to prove that marxism-leninism is true socialism. And as you apparently have neither the intention nor the wit to prove it you might as well give up now.

 

[Yugoslav]

You don't, clearly, if you can't articulate your politics yourself

Not much I can say on your rejection.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not much I can say on your rejection.

You could say 'goodbye' and depart

 

[Yugoslav]

Yeh but you've yet to prove that marxism-leninism is true socialism. And as you apparently have neither the intention nor the wit to prove it you might as well give up now.

Marxism-Leninism is indeed true socialism had you read up theory from Marx, Engels, Lenin, and what others had to comment on it. I provided you the chance to read on it and you're telling me that it's not "enough". How sad.

 

[Yugoslav]

You could say 'goodbye' and depart

Just read the ML theory. It's not that hard. In details you get to learn the following:

1. Dictatorship of the Proletariat
2. Revolution is the only way for socialism
3. The vanguard serves the proletariat only!
4. A state cannot be abolished and will wither away only if capitalism is eradicated
5. The end goal is abolishing of classes and capitalism, followed by the gradual dissolution of the state apparatus
6. From each according to their needs to each according to their abilities
7. Reformism, revisionism, and opportunism are dangerous to the true socialism

 

[Pickman's model]

Marxism-Leninism is indeed true socialism had you read up theory from Marx, Engels, Lenin, and what others had to comment on it. I provided you the chance to read on it and you're telling me that it's not "enough". How sad.

Obviously marx, engels and lenin are going to say they're right. No political theorists say oops my bad do they. Given Marxist pretentions to their thing being scientific it can surely be proved. So go on. Build it up from first principles and prove it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just read the ML theory. It's not that hard. In details you get to learn the following:

1. Dictatorship of the Proletariat
2. Revolution is the only way for socialism
3. The vanguard serves the proletariat only!
4. A state cannot be abolished and will wither away only if capitalism is eradicated
5. The end goal is abolishing of classes and capitalism, followed by the gradual dissolution of the state apparatus
6. From each according to their needs to each according to their abilities
7. Reformism, revisionism, and opportunism are dangerous to the true socialism

Could you elaborate on what Marx said about the dictatorship of the proletariat as it's my understanding it wasn't a major aspect of his work. Certainly not sufficient to be number 1, the most important thing.

 

[Yugoslav]

Obviously marx, engels and lenin are going to say they're right. No political theorists say oops my bad do they. Given Marxist pretentions to their thing being scientific it can surely be proved. So go on. Build it up from first principles and prove it.

Proven it was possible by Lenin's Bolsheviks who overthrew the Kerenskyite opportunists who were trying to sabotage the chance of a workers' revolution in 1917. Proven it was by Tito with his national liberation of Yugoslavia mostly on own without Allied help until 1943 and 1944. Castro managed to make Cuba stay firm against all odds from the US imperialists. Are these not the proofs that socialism did prevail against odds?

 

[A380]

Just read the ML theory. It's not that hard. In details you get to learn the following:

1. Dictatorship of the Proletariat
2. Revolution is the only way for socialism
3. The vanguard serves the proletariat only!
4. A state cannot be abolished and will wither away only if capitalism is eradicated
5. The end goal is abolishing of classes and capitalism, followed by the gradual dissolution of the state apparatus
6. From each according to their needs to each according to their abilities
7. Reformism, revisionism, and opportunism are dangerous to the true socialism

1. Dictatorship of the Proletariat
2. No diving, no bombing no petting
3. Dogs must be carried on escalators!
4. Red and green should never be seen
5. The end goal is abolishing of classes and capitalism, objects in mirror are closer than they appear
6. Stop, look and listen.
7. Never wear brown shoes in town

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Just read the ML theory. It's not that hard. In details you get to learn the following:

1. Dictatorship of the Proletariat
2. Revolution is the only way for socialism
3. The vanguard serves the proletariat only!
4. A state cannot be abolished and will wither away only if capitalism is eradicated
5. The end goal is abolishing of classes and capitalism, followed by the gradual dissolution of the state apparatus
6. From each according to their needs to each according to their abilities
7. Reformism, revisionism, and opportunism are dangerous to the true socialism

I think you got no. 6 wrong.