On Marxism-Leninism

[PTK]

I think you're going the wrong way with this level of wording. Proletarian becoming capitalist? Where was that?

In Yugoslavia. According to you, there was a proletarian state that became a bourgeois state because a new person became leader.

 

[Yugoslav]

In Yugoslavia. According to you, there was a proletarian state that became a bourgeois state because a new person became leader.

Daring today to help are we?

Anyways, the reason why it became bourgeois is not overnight. It was a process of gradual degradation caused by the ineffective collective presidency after Tito died. New president was elected every year in this "rotatory form". Not only were the new presidents just inexperienced bureuacrats, but most of them did not bother about the growing Serbian nationalism hence the rise of Milosevic to power and his loyal puppet "Borisav Jovic", president of the now de-communized Yugoslavia (which lost its SKJ apparatus in 1990 due to Serbian counter-revolution) from 1990 to 1991 before its inevitable but expected fall.

 

[PTK]

Daring today to help are we?

Anyways, the reason why it became bourgeois is not overnight. It was a process of gradual degradation caused by the ineffective collective presidency after Tito died. New president was elected every year in this "rotatory form". Not only were the new presidents just inexperienced bureuacrats, but most of them did not bother about the growing Serbian nationalism hence the rise of Milosevic to power and his loyal puppet "Borisav Jovic", president of the now de-communized Yugoslavia (which lost its SKJ apparatus in 1990 due to Serbian counter-revolution) from 1990 to 1991 before its inevitable but expected fall.

A peaceful counter-revolution? Is that not a reformist concept?

 

[Yugoslav]

A peaceful counter-revolution? Is that not a reformist concept?

Ah. Now I remember. You weren't calling a socialist revolution "reformist". You were referring to a counter-revolution as "reformist". It's true. But peaceful it may be, it did not lead to ever-lasting peace in Yugoslavia for this "peaceful revolution" led by the Serbian bourgeoisie was the seed of ethnic violence, genocide, and massacre of utter chaos and destruction not seen since WW2 and the Holocaust.

 

[Pickman's model]

According to original poster, the state will either wither away, or become a capitalist state. It could go either way, and it depends on having the right person in charge.

For, as Marx and Engels did write “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of the right person being in charge. Freeman, patrician, lord, guild-master, capitalist, Party Secretary, in a word, the person in charge.”

from each according to his knees, to each according to his ability to tie ties

 

[PTK]

Ah. Now I remember. You weren't calling a socialist revolution "reformist". You were referring to a counter-revolution as "reformist". It's true. But peaceful it may be, it did not lead to ever-lasting peace in Yugoslavia for this "peaceful revolution" led by the Serbian bourgeoisie was the seed of ethnic violence, genocide, and massacre of utter chaos and destruction not seen since WW2 and the Holocaust.

You don't understand the concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat. A proletarian state cannot peacefully become a bourgeois state. Therefore, the dictatorship of the proletariat did no exist in Serbia and/or Yugoslavia as a whole.

 

[Yugoslav]

You don't understand the concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat. A proletarian state cannot peacefully become a bourgeois state. Therefore, the dictatorship of the proletariat did no exist in Serbia and/or Yugoslavia as a whole.

It never was peaceful. Did you read the latter of my argument?

 

[existentialist]

It never was peaceful. Did you read the latter of my argument?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd lost the will to live by halfway through...

 

[Pickman's model]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I lost the will to live halfway through...

I have never seen such an ignorant attempt to explain m-l in all my born days. I've met tories with a better grasp of the politics of revolution than the miserable yugoslav has

 

[PTK]

I have never seen such an ignorant attempt to explain m-l in all my born days. I've met tories with a better grasp of the politics of revolution than the miserable yugoslav has

"Born days" implies that you had unborn days. Can you tell us about your unborn days?

 

[PTK]

It never was peaceful. Did you read the latter of my argument?

So, the counter-revolution in Serbia was violent? Proletarian rule was overthrown by bourgeois forces? I don't remembe any reports of this.

 

[chilango]

I think that 'I don't know 'should be said more often by you, tbh.

More often by all of us tbh.

 

[Pickman's model]

"Born days" implies that you had unborn days. Can you tell us about your unborn days?

Yes.

 

[Yugoslav]

So, the counter-revolution in Serbia was violent? Proletarian rule was overthrown by bourgeois forces? I don't remembe any reports of this.

Milosevic rising to power in 1986 can be interpreted as a coup d'etat. The "anti-bureaucratic" revolution by Milosevic's counter-revolutionary forces in 1989 is regarded as an overthrow of anti-chauvinist Yugoslavs and replacing them with Serbs loyal to Milosevic.

 

[PTK]

Milosevic rising to power in 1986 can be interpreted as a coup d'etat. The "anti-bureaucratic" revolution by Milosevic's counter-revolutionary forces in 1989 is regarded as an overthrow of anti-chauvinist Yugoslavs and replacing them with Serbs loyal to Milosevic.

A peaceful coup? The proletarian state converted to a bourgeois state by a peaceful change of personnel? Not possible according to Marxist theory. You are a revisionist.

 

[Yugoslav]

A peaceful coup? The proletarian state converted to a bourgeois state by a peaceful change of personnel? Not possible according to Marxist theory. You are a revisionist.

It was a counter-revolution meant for violence. Milosevic wanted violence. The signs were clear but no one cared. There was nothing peaceful about Milosevic overthrowing leaders in Vojvodina, Kosovo, and Montenegro. He even attempted to overthrow one in Slovenia.