On Marxism-Leninism

[Pickman's model]

Anyways, Marxism-Leninism is clearly true socialism. I don't know why the social democrats or liberals claim they're "better socialists".

What is truth?

 

[Yugoslav]

What is truth?

True socialism is workers revolution, dictatorship of the proletariat, followed by eradication of capitalism by workers' state, and the withering away of the state.

 

[DotCommunist]

Have you considered Kautsky's criticisms of m-l strokes beard

 

[Pickman's model]

True socialism is workers revolution, dictatorship of the proletariat, followed by eradication of capitalism by workers' state, and the withering away of the state.

i'd like to see your working in more detail as you don't appear to know what the fuck you're talking about

 

[planetgeli]

Enver Hoxha, great lad.

 

[Yugoslav]

Have you considered Kautsky's criticisms of m-l strokes beard

They're invalid because he rejects workers' revolution. Look at today's "Western Left". Do you really wanna agree with this mess?

 

[Yugoslav]

i'd like to see your working in more detail as you don't appear to know what the fuck you're talking about

"We have already said above, and shall show more fully later, that the theory of Marx and Engels of the inevitability of a violent revolution refers to the bourgeois state. The latter cannot be superseded by the proletarian state (the dictatorship of the proletariat) through the process of ”withering away”, but, as a general rule, only through a violent revolution. The panegyric Engels sang in its honor, and which fully corresponds to Marx’s repeated statements (see the concluding passages of The Poverty of Philosophy[5] and the Communist Manifesto,[6] with their proud and open proclamation of the inevitability of a violent revolution; see what Marx wrote nearly 30 years later, in criticizing the Gotha Programme of 1875,[7] when he mercilessly castigated the opportunist character of that programme) — this panegyric is by no means a mere “impulse”, a mere declamation or a polemical sally. The necessity of systematically imbuing the masses with this and precisely this view of violent revolution lies at the root of the entire theory of Marx and Engels. The betrayal of their theory by the now prevailing social-chauvinist and Kautskyite trends expresses itself strikingly in both these trends ignoring such propaganda and agitation."

- The State and Revolution — Chapter 1

 

[InArduisFouette]

"We have already said above, and shall show more fully later, that the theory of Marx and Engels of the inevitability of a violent revolution refers to the bourgeois state. The latter cannot be superseded by the proletarian state (the dictatorship of the proletariat) through the process of ”withering away”, but, as a general rule, only through a violent revolution. The panegyric Engels sang in its honor, and which fully corresponds to Marx’s repeated statements (see the concluding passages of The Poverty of Philosophy[5] and the Communist Manifesto,[6] with their proud and open proclamation of the inevitability of a violent revolution; see what Marx wrote nearly 30 years later, in criticizing the Gotha Programme of 1875,[7] when he mercilessly castigated the opportunist character of that programme) — this panegyric is by no means a mere “impulse”, a mere declamation or a polemical sally. The necessity of systematically imbuing the masses with this and precisely this view of violent revolution lies at the root of the entire theory of Marx and Engels. The betrayal of their theory by the now prevailing social-chauvinist and Kautskyite trends expresses itself strikingly in both these trends ignoring such propaganda and agitation."

- The State and Revolution — Chapter 1

oh look more copy-pasta when the entity behind the 'poster' wherther that is a human troll or a LLM needs time to 'think'

 

[Pickman's model]

"We have already said above, and shall show more fully later, that the theory of Marx and Engels of the inevitability of a violent revolution refers to the bourgeois state. The latter cannot be superseded by the proletarian state (the dictatorship of the proletariat) through the process of ”withering away”, but, as a general rule, only through a violent revolution. The panegyric Engels sang in its honor, and which fully corresponds to Marx’s repeated statements (see the concluding passages of The Poverty of Philosophy[5] and the Communist Manifesto,[6] with their proud and open proclamation of the inevitability of a violent revolution; see what Marx wrote nearly 30 years later, in criticizing the Gotha Programme of 1875,[7] when he mercilessly castigated the opportunist character of that programme) — this panegyric is by no means a mere “impulse”, a mere declamation or a polemical sally. The necessity of systematically imbuing the masses with this and precisely this view of violent revolution lies at the root of the entire theory of Marx and Engels. The betrayal of their theory by the now prevailing social-chauvinist and Kautskyite trends expresses itself strikingly in both these trends ignoring such propaganda and agitation."

- The State and Revolution — Chapter 1

your working, pls.

 

[PTK]

You might want to read the reply. Open Letter to Comrade Lenin

Gorter's mistake here was that he was still trying to build bridges with "comrade" Lenin. Anyway, I'm sure it'll all be water off a duck's back with you.

That's a bit like the Ephesians writing back to Saint Paul.

Interesting fact that I may have mentioned elsewhere: Pannekoek was an astronomer who made some discoveries about the Milky Way, and after whom an institute of astronomy in the Netherlands was named.

[For the benefit of the person who started this thread: Neither Pannekoek nor Gorter were liberals or social democrats. They were Marxists who believed that the bourgeois state should be abolished].

 

[Sue]

Son, have you ever kissed a girl?

Oh, I know this one!!!

I kissed a girl and I liked it!

 

[PTK]

your working, pls.

The dog ate his homework, and thinks that it is acceptable to submit the textbook instead.

 

[bcuster]

I'm not so good with the atheistic parts

 

[existentialist]

Well true. Western Leftists like to pose the "defeatist" notion of socialism, claiming that we have to have a healthy mix of capitalism and socialism. In the East, you have Russians in this defeatist notion, claiming that we have to kill Ukrainians in order to satisfy Russian chauvinism (a.k.a "return of the USSR under Vlad the PutOut"). First it was the 20th century East, but then came the West and now the 21st century dystopia of bourgeois "social democracy" that is not even Marxist, therefore, not even socialist.

So, let see if I've got this right. Every nation that's tried your particular brand of socialism has crashed and burned with it, but it's not because the theory is flawed, it's because they're "defeatist". Sounds more and more like a cult to me. "it's not working because you're not believing in it hard enough".

 

[Pickman's model]

So, let see if I've got this right. Every nation that's tried your particular brand of socialism has crashed and burned with it, but it's not because the theory is flawed, it's because they're "defeatist". Sounds more and more like a cult to me. "it's not working because you're not believing in it hard enough".

to be fair part of the difficulty may lie in the fact that so much of lenin's life was devoted to the revolution and not so much to dealing with what we now call 'the day after'. and marx wasn't so big on the actual building of socialist society either. lenin's bloodthirsty ways somewhat undermine what is really supposed to be a work of love for humanity, freeing it from the shackles of capitalism and work and that

 

[stethoscope]

What is truth?

Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more...!

 

[JimW]

Was Tito a renegade in hock to the imperialists?

 

[Elpenor]

and was dedicated to Lloyd-Geroge! The reformist old twat.

he was a good mate of Lenin’s dad

 

[Serge Forward]

That's a bit like the Ephesians writing back to Saint Paul.

Interesting fact that I may have mentioned elsewhere: Pannekoek was an astronomer who made some discoveries about the Milky Way, and after whom an institute of astronomy in the Netherlands was named.

[For the benefit of the person who started this thread: Neither Pannekoek nor Gorter were liberals or social democrats. They were Marxists who believed that the bourgeois state should be abolished].

Pannekoek's History of Astronomy is an excellent read and sits proudly on my bookshelf.

 

[Yugoslav]

So, let see if I've got this right. Every nation that's tried your particular brand of socialism has crashed and burned with it, but it's not because the theory is flawed, it's because they're "defeatist". Sounds more and more like a cult to me. "it's not working because you're not believing in it hard enough".

Well, the Western leftists see it as so but won't admit it despite the obvious evidence. They think that Marxism-Leninism failed because "authority" and therefore, we must now advocate for reconciling with the capitalists.

 

[existentialist]

Well, the Western leftists see it as so but won't admit it despite the obvious evidence. They think that Marxism-Leninism failed because "authority" and therefore, we must now advocate for reconciling with the capitalists.

What is this "obvious evidence" of which you speak? It seems to me that the most obvious evidence is the suppression of individuality, huge body counts, semi-permanent states of terror and conflict, and flagrant abuse of that authority to which you refer.

 

[chilango]

Oh, I know this one!!!

I kissed a girl and I liked it!

Obviously

 

[Yugoslav]

What is this "obvious evidence" of which you speak? It seems to me that the most obvious evidence is the suppression of individuality, huge body counts, semi-permanent states of terror and conflict, and flagrant abuse of that authority to which you refer.

The obvious evidence is the suppression of communism with individual liberalism. Ya can't have individualism with communism. The same way ya can't have bourgeoisie and proletariat together.

 

[Sue]

Obviously

So Orang Utan's the sitting down one and you're the rapper, right?

(I've always thought Kayleigh by The Waterboys was ripe for reinterpretation with Lenin dancing in stilettos in the snow or whatever.)

 

[existentialist]

The obvious evidence is the suppression of communism with individual liberalism. Ya can't have individualism with communism. The same way ya can't have bourgeoisie and proletariat together.

Well, you can take your anti-individualist socialism, fold it until it's all spiky corners, and shove it where the sun don't shine, in that case. And then climb up your own arse, and enjoy the company.

 

[Orang Utan]

That made me cringe a kidney out.
Not as bad as this mind:


Clearly the devil has the best tunes. And such swagger too:

 

[Pickman's model]

The obvious evidence is the suppression of communism with individual liberalism. Ya can't have individualism with communism. The same way ya can't have bourgeoisie and proletariat together.

Have you ever read a biography of lenin? He was hardly a horny-handed son of toil

 

[Yugoslav]

Well, you can take your anti-individualist socialism, fold it until it's all spiky corners, and shove it where the sun don't shine, in that case. And then climb up your own arse, and enjoy the company.

Yup. This is a Fabianite revisionist forum. I'm lovin' it!

 

[Sue]

That made me cringe a kidney out.
Not as bad as this mind:


Clearly the devil has the best tunes. And such swagger too:

Astonishing! .

 

[JimW]

What is this "obvious evidence" of which you speak? It seems to me that the most obvious evidence is the suppression of individuality, huge body counts, semi-permanent states of terror and conflict, and flagrant abuse of that authority to which you refer.

Of all the Leninist states, you could probably do best making a case that Yugoslavia was in many ways better than what came after, though that's only on a cursory acquaintance with the history.