Occupy Wall Street

[DotCommunist]

I think I'm being a bit thick but I'm not sure I understand what it means...

statue of civil rights legend goes to join the OWS- ie the spirit of MLK and the civil rights movement is with them- americas most recent and massive social change through popular protest etc.

 

[8ball]

statue of civil rights legend goes to join the OWS- ie the spirit of MLK and the civil rights movement is with them- americas most recent and massive social change through popular protest etc.

That was my first thought, but then it would seem kind of insulting to associate the civil rights movements with some wingnuts camped out in a park with no coherent aims or demands...

 

[Treacle Toes]

 

[Barking_Mad]

I wont post the link but some coppers need better passwords!

Anonymous, the Internet “hactivist” group, today, apparently in support of the Occupy Wall Street protest movement, hacked into several different police databases and leaked sensitive personal data, among them passwords, names, addresses, phone numbers and social security numbers from the Boston Police Patrolmens’ Association (BPPA) and Birmingham, Alabama Police Department, according to several reports. Additionally, Anonymous claims to have hacked the International Association of Chiefs of Police, and offers the above image as proof.

 

[dylans]

That was my first thought, but then it would seem kind of insulting to associate the civil rights movements with some wingnuts camped out in a park with no coherent aims or demands...

Nonsense. There is no question that If King were alive he would be at Wall St today. King's last campaign was the poor person's campaign (opposed by some in the civil rights movement) to fight economic injustice. He called for a "multiracial army of the poor" to march to Washington and to CAMP OUT outside the federal offices in an act of mass civil disobedience to demand a bill of rights for the poor. The American state have attempted to ignore this aspect of his struggle but in many ways he was a revolutionary who demanded the radical restructuring of society not merely its reform.

The demands of the poor person's campaign were

1. the abolition of poverty
 2. guaranteed full employment
 3. full production and high economic growth
 4. adequate minimum wages
 5. farm income parity
 6. guaranteed incomes for all unable to work
 7. a decent home for every American family
 8. modern health services for all
 9. full educational opportunity for all.
10. updated (and expanded) Social Security and welfare programs.
11. equitable tax and money policies

Talking about the Poor Person's campaign he said.

You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry.… Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong…with capitalism.… There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.”

The idea that associating Kings name with OWS would be an insult is itself an insult to King

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Billy Bragg to join protest in Dublin Saturday and perform secret gig

 

[AKA pseudonym]

@Rutita1
embedding disabled by youtube

 

[ddraig]

@Rutita1
embedding disabled by youtube

just click on the handy link to watch on youtube then
or copy it
well worth watching

 

[8ball]

The idea that associating Kings name with OWS would be an insult is itself an insult to King

I think you're just associating your projections of MLK with your projections of OWS.

In any case, time will tell.

 

[dylans]

I think you're just associating your projections of MLK with your projections of OWS.

In any case, time will tell.

Projections my arse. He advocated an open ended occupation against poverty. How are these demands any different from the demands of OWS? Like American Conservatives, you wish to celebrate King's civil rights struggle while ignoring his fight for economic and social justice
. the abolition of poverty
 2. guaranteed full employment
 3. full production and high economic growth
 4. adequate minimum wages
 5. farm income parity
 6. guaranteed incomes for all unable to work
 7. a decent home for every American family
 8. modern health services for all
 9. full educational opportunity for all.
10. updated (and expanded) Social Security and welfare programs.
11. equitable tax and money policies

 

[8ball]

Projections my arse .... Like American Conservatives, you wish to celebrate King's civil rights struggle while ignoring his fight for economic and social justice

You missed MLK's stance on chemtrails, by the way...

 

[dylans]

I have no idea what chemtrails are or what the fuck you are talking about. I have made Dr King's views on economic and social justice very clear and only the willfully ignorant can fail to see the glaring similarities with OWS. In fact, if anything Kings demands are more radical. You just choose to ignore them because it doesn't suit your argument. It would be nice if you had the balls to just admit that you are wrong

(nice picture btw

 

[8ball]

I have no idea what ... the fuck you are talking about.

This is an important gap to fill if you are going to claim 'check mate' in any argument.

 

[dylans]

This is an important gap to fill if you are going to claim 'check mate' in any argument.

still no idea what you are talking about. What do "chemtrails" (whatever they are) have to do with Dr King or Wall street? Why don't you just address the points I made?

(and please don't edit my words to imply I said something I didn't. That's very dishonest of you. I said

"I have no idea what chemtrails are or what the fuck you are talking about."

and you edited that to read

I have no idea what ....the fuck you are talking about

That's like me editing your words to read

I think you.. just... claim 'check mate... by the way'

See, easy isn't it.

 

[8ball]

still no idea what you are talking about. What do "chemtrails" (whatever they are) have to do with Dr King or Wall street?

I'm not going to recap on everything I've just said, partly because my need to do so is based on your not caring enough about the points argued to Google a couple of terms, but mostly because I have to pop out to the shops in a bit.

Suffice to say, if a movement came along which broadly and meaningfully shared aims and principles with MLK's PPC then I'd be right down there occupying with you. So far, I'm a long way from convinced this is that movement - I'm not even convinced it is a movement.

 

[dylans]

I'm not going to recap on everything I've just said, partly because my need to do so is based on your not caring enough about the points argued to Google a couple of terms, but mostly because I have to pop out to the shops in a bit.

Suffice to say, if a movement came along which broadly and meaningfully shared aims and principles with MLK's PPC then I'd be right down there occupying with you. So far, I'm a long way from convinced this is that movement - I'm not even convinced it is a movement.

I'm not interested in googling the mad theories of conspiracy nutters that have nothing to do with the motivation for thousands of people to support OWS because you wish to use the nutcase ideas of a few marginal idiots to smear this movement. I have made a crystal clear comparison with the PPC and OWS. The fact that you choose to completely ignore that comparison in favour of droning on about some loony CP crap that has nothing to do with king or OWS just demonstrates how weak your argument is.

(lots of words there for you to edit out of all context and meaning, knock yourself out)

 

[Kaka Tim]

You're full of shit 8ball. King would certianly suppport these protests. your denigration of the protestors as 'incoherent' and 'wingnuts' is just parroting the sneering of the right wing media - exactly the same people who sneered at and oppossed King and the civil rights movement.

Its amazing how many people will clap and cheer radical movements of the past, but fall in with the reactionaries when its happening in their own time.

 

[dylans]

You're full of shit 8ball. King would certianly suppport these protests. your denigration of the protestors as 'incoherent' and 'wingnuts' is just parroting the sneering of the right wing media - exactly the same people who sneered at and oppossed King and the civil rights movement.

Its amazing how many people will clap and cheer radical movements of the past, but fall in with the reactionaries when its happening in their own time.

Dr Kings daughter, Bernice King. " My father would have supported the 99% movement

We are being pulled from the familiar place and comfort place of “I have a dream” to focus on another aspect of Dr. King’s life. Perhaps, the postponement [of the original dedication] was a divine interuption to remind us of the King that moved us beyond the dream of racial justice to action and work of economic justice.
Perhaps, God wanted to remind us that when our father was taken from us, he was in the midst of starting a poor people’s campaign where he was galvanizing poor people from all walks of life to converge on this nation’s capital and stay here and occupy this place until there was change in the economic system and a better distribution of wealth. [...]
In fact, he told us we must become maladjusted to certain social ills. We should never adjust to the 1% controlling more than 40% of the wealth.”

 

[Kaka Tim]

^ Looking forward to 8balls reaction to that!

 

[dylans]

^ Looking forward to 8balls reaction to that!

"As we dedicate this monument I hear my father saying what we are seeing now all across the streets of America and the world is a freedom explosion.

 

[8ball]

Hang on, wasn't this the same memorial dedication event that had such peaceable, non-warmongering non corporate-controlled beacons of idealism as Barack Obama also speaking? Clearly the powerful are shaking in their boots. Bernice King is obviously going to be given plenty of freedom to say what she likes at an event like this.

So to reiterate one last time, I'm open to reasonable argument and evidence on this subject, I've said plenty of times that I'm 'not convinced', not that I'm 'against' - if the 'Occupy' movement comes out with a list of demands comparable to King's and a statement of what they are for as well as what they are against (and I'd like to see Zionist conspiracy wingnuts on this list) - then I'm in. While people are arguing that their lack of focus and coherence is their strength then you can count me out.

I think that's being more than fair - I've seen a few false dawns in my time.

 

[dylans]

You were right. I was wrong. King would have supported this movement.

 

[8ball]

Ok, some kinds of moron I can't be arsed even trying to engage with - post reported for misrepresentation.

To anyone else reading this thread - anyone know what's happening with the Liverpool Occupy thing - been hearing conflicting reports but I'm in the area later this weekend and wouldn't mind taking a look for myself.

 

[dylans]

Hang on, wasn't this the same memorial dedication event that had such peaceable, non-warmongering non corporate-controlled beacons of idealism as Barack Obama also speaking? Clearly the powerful are shaking in their boots. Bernice King is obviously going to be given plenty of freedom to say what she likes at an event like this.

Yes, an example of how the powerful wish to exploit kings memory while emasculating it of his real message and relevence A bit like yourself.

 

[dylans]

Ok, some kinds of moron I can't be arsed even trying to engage with - post reported for misrepresentation.

To anyone else reading this thread - anyone know what's happening with the Liverpool Occupy thing - been hearing conflicting reports but I'm in the area later this weekend and wouldn't mind taking a look for myself.

Oh you don't like it when someone does to you what you do to others. You did exactly the same to me. So here is an idea, behave yourself and so will I, ok

 

[8ball]

Oh you don't like it when someone does to you what you do to others. You did exactly the same to me. So here is an idea, behave yourself and so will I, ok

Where did I manipulate your quote and take it remotely out of context, bollock-brain?
I'm sure you'll have no trouble showing it to the mods when you find it.

Try actually reading something for a change you fucking rabid loon - your precious 'movement' is going to do just great with people like you on board.

 

[dylans]

Where did I manipulate your quote and take it remotely out of context, bollock-brain?

Oh yes you did.

I'm sure you'll have no trouble showing it to the mods when you find it.

ooooh scary.

Try actually reading something for a change you fucking rabid loon - your precious 'movement' is going to do just great with people like you on board.

I have many faults but not being well read isn't one of them. You are ranting and getting yourself into a rage because you have just been totally annihilated on this thread and made to look like a total prat. I'd give up before you make it worse. I'm laughing at you now

 

[GEN.Eccentric]

The thing is its only a short step from the stance that fella was taking - the inking that there is something very very wrong going on - to this:

http://youtu.be/WWUQ_N_vHc0

(Iraq Veterans Against War)

These are the type of soldier boys even you can salute

I think its a giant leap from the stance he was taking, note the interview where he talks about how he had stones thrown at him in Iraq and they just took it - compare that to all the evidence in your video about the proactive incitement to violence by the army in Iraq, something he suggests the police in NY are doing. Nothing in his comments suggests he is interested in anything except his immediate environment or that he doesn't view the Iraq war in the same imperialist terms as the corporations who are getting richer from it do, just that he is with the 99% by default and he wants a bigger share of the profits. Which as far as I can see is what the main message coming out of NY is.

I like the message of the video - I would like it more if I heard it louder and closer to home.

 

[maldwyn]

Another site opened up at Finsbury Square, well done

 

[treelover]

Wow Pete Seeger just played there, 92!

@OWS...