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Occupy Wall Street

dylans said:
What do you think of the comparison between the tea party and fascist movements? Middle class and appeals to lumpen elements of the working class, anti union, celebrates a mythical past and agitates for its return, anti minority, anti gay, nationalistic, protectionist, militaristic, racist. Quietly supported by big business. I don't know enough about them to say they are a fascist movement but I think there are enough similarities to make me think they share some commonalities.
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But you're talking about the Tea Party now. Not its earliest incarnation.

All of the early organizers that I saw were white, working-class, aka "trailer trash" that were just tired of losing out, didn't quite know where to place that anger, and had no access to the education that the student contingent of the 99ers do. I don't think you can really be suprised when more sophisticated organziers went in and directed their anger toward the usual scapegoats.

Even "white trash" wants to feed their kids.
 
Just wanna say that I find the description 'white trash' really nasty. It appears that there is the same habit of demonising the working/lower classes (poor) in the states too, no surprise of course but....For me it is just like saying 'chavs' or 'feral underclass', nasty, condscending bollocks. :facepalm:
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
But you're talking about the Tea Party now. Not its earliest incarnation.

All of the early organizers that I saw were white, working-class, aka "trailer trash" that were just tired of losing out, didn't quite know where to place that anger, and had no access to the education that the student contingent of the 99ers do. I don't think you can really be suprised when more sophisticated organziers went in and directed their anger toward the usual scapegoats.

Even "white trash" wants to feed their kids.
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OK so its base was originally amongst poor workers?. Interesting, in that sense its evolution was the opposite of the OWS bunch which seems to have begun with young middle class kids and has gradually attracted workers, most notably the unions.
but the tea party was always focused on demands for tax cuts and "smaller government" ie cuts to public services etc wasn't it? even if, as you say, its original base was poor workers, weren't it's demands always nationalistic and individualistic with people like Ron Paul and right wing republicans in the leadership? As I said, I don't know that much about its history so please take this as an opportunity to educate me.
 
Rutita1 said:
Just wanna say that I find the description 'white trash' really nasty. It appears that there is the same habit of demonising the working/lower classes (poor) in the states too, no surprise of course but....For me it is just like saying 'chavs' or 'feral underclass', nasty, condscending bollocks. :facepalm:
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It is nasty. It's both classist and racist. I'm using it at the moment to make a point and don't plan on using it on a regular basis.
 
Rutita1 said:
Just wanna say that I find the description 'white trash' really nasty. It appears that there is the same habit of demonising the working/lower classes (poor) in the states too, no surprise of course but....For me it is just like saying 'chavs' or 'feral underclass', nasty, condscending bollocks. :facepalm:
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It's foolish to use UK class definitions to interpret terms like 'white trash'.
 
dilute micro said:
It's foolish to use UK class definitions to interpret terms like 'white trash'.
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Kindly do not imply I am a fool, nor that I am being foolish....I am rightfully seeing that you have a similar habit over there. I have not 'imposed' UK class definitions. I am observing US ones and responding to them.

From your rather defensive response DM I am left wondering if you yourself use the term and how you justify that?
 
dylans said:
OK so its base was originally amongst poor workers?. Interesting, in that sense its evolution was the opposite of the OWS bunch which seems to have begun with young middle class kids and has gradually attracted workers, most notably the unions.
but the tea party was always focused on demands for tax cuts and "smaller government" ie cuts to public services etc wasn't it? even if, as you say, its original base was poor workers, weren't it's demands always nationalistic and individualistic with people like Ron Paul and right wing republicans in the leadership? As I said, I don't know that much about its history so please take this as an opportunity to educate me.
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The thing that I saw originally was that the people who noticed the slide in living standards first was older, white, working class men. From the 1950s to 1980 they benefitted the most from workers rights, even if they weren't directly involved in Unions, etc. Everyone else hadn't seen their income rise as much, so they were a bit slower to get angry. The income of minorities and women continued to rise for a while as they were still cheaper than employing white men. Now everyone is noticing the slide so you get the 99%. That seemed to start mostly with middle-class kids who've realized that they arn't going to have the same standard of living as their parents.
 
Rutita1 said:
Just wanna say that I find the description 'white trash' really nasty. It appears that there is the same habit of demonising the working/lower classes (poor) in the states too, no surprise of course but....For me it is just like saying 'chavs' or 'feral underclass', nasty, condscending bollocks. :facepalm:
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mmmm, best to stick to 'Sun readers'
 
elbows said:
One of the reasons Im enjoying these protests is that it seems to be forcing these sorts of right wingers to show their hand. Previously it was easy for not terribly well informed people to know what Alex Jones was against, but less clear what he was for.
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I liked this elsewhere from a poster who pointed out to one of Alex Jone's useful idiots that Jones was:

...watching his 'influence' drain away by these protests of Wall St. and beyond. He's become the Bill O'Reilly of internet media. A clown of epic proportions - A complete self absorbed ego maniac.
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Well quite. :D
 
campanula said:
mmmm, best to stick to 'Sun readers'
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There is a problem with this though...namely lots of people who write for the Sun and similar are not people who are commonly referred to as 'chavs' or the 'feral underclass', which means regardless of who reads the Sun and similar and whether they internalise that crap and re-use it...people who regard themselves as not-chav and not-feral underclass are writing it. Just like above in this thread posters have been using the term 'white trash', I am sure that they don't regard themselves as 'white trash'.
 
Rutita1 said:
There is a problem with this though...namely lots of people who write for the Sun and similar are not people who are commonly referred to as 'chavs' or the 'feral underclass', which means regardless of who reads the Sun and similar and whether they internalise that crap and re-use it...people who regard themselves as not-chav and not-feral underclass are writing it. Just like above in this thread posters have been using the term 'white trash', I am sure that they don't regard themselves as 'white trash'.
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The difficulty comes, in part, when definitions of class are different in the US than they are in Europe. What do you call the different classes in the US, when most people regard themselves as "middle class" if they make $250K a year or support four kids on $18K? No rational definition would label both as the same social class.
 
Rutita1 said:
Kindly do not imply I am a fool, nor that I am being foolish....I am rightfully seeing that you have a similar habit over there. I have not 'imposed' UK class definitions. I am observing US ones and responding to them.

From your rather defensive response DM I am left wondering if you yourself use the term and how you justify that?
Click to expand...

Yes you did and made an interpretation based on that. That's what this was about -
"It appears that there is the same habit of demonising the working/lower classes (poor) in the states too".
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You call it "observing" and "responding". Your observation and response are through the lens of UK classes.

The term has a very specific meaning and doesn't describe the 'poor' or 'working class'. There are plenty of people who are poor and white and are not thought of as white trash. It's most often used in association with indignant behavior or character. A person really doesn't even have to be poor.

I don't know where it came from. It's thought of more as a playful thing and not taken so seriously like it would be in the UK. The US just isn't that sensitive about class. You have to be openminded that maybe your opinion of 'white trash' may not be the same in the UK as it is in the US. It wouldn't be the first time there's been issues with words and definitions.

I don't call people white trash anymore. I like the term 'people of walmart' and hey - I shop at walmart.;)
 
dilute micro said:
Yes you did and made an interpretation based on that. That's what this was about -

You call it "observing" and "responding". Your observation and response are through the lens of UK classes.

The term has a very specific meaning and doesn't describe the 'poor' or 'working class'. There are plenty of people who are poor and white and are not thought of as white trash. It's most often used in association with indignant behavior or character. A person really doesn't even have to be poor.

I don't know where it came from. It's thought of more as a playful thing and not taken so seriously like it would be in the UK. The US just isn't that sensitive about class. You have to be openminded that maybe your opinion of 'white trash' may not be the same in the UK as it is in the US. It wouldn't be the first time there's been issues with words and definitions.

I don't call people white trash anymore. I like the term 'people of walmart' and hey - I shop at walmart.;)
Click to expand...

It's just as well you don't have a class system over there. Things could get really messy.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
The difficulty comes, in part, when definitions of class are different in the US than they are in Europe. What do you call the different classes in the US, when most people regard themselves as "middle class" if they make $250K a year or support four kids on $18K? No rational definition would label both as the same social class.
Click to expand...

Well, considering your earlier response I am a bit disappointed with this one ^^^^^, where you have seemingly dug your heels in and gotten defensive like DM. It seems you want to complicate a very straight forward thing.

You said above ( in your first response) that you were not about to be using the term 'white trash' often, which told me loud and clear that your understood my objection to it. I have not used UK 'class' definitions to take a dislike to the term 'white trash' I have used much more superior/natural/human feeling/thinking. Behave like a nasty, condescending snob and i'll observe that fact. In short, you can dress it up all you (not you specifically) like.
 
dilute micro said:
Yes you did and made an interpretation based on that. That's what this was about -

You call it "observing" and "responding". Your observation and response are through the lens of UK classes.

The term has a very specific meaning and doesn't describe the 'poor' or 'working class'. There are plenty of people who are poor and white and are not thought of as white trash. It's most often used in association with indignant behavior or character. A person really doesn't even have to be poor.

I don't know where it came from. It's thought of more as a playful thing and not taken so seriously like it would be in the UK. The US just isn't that sensitive about class. You have to be openminded that maybe your opinion of 'white trash' may not be the same in the UK as it is in the US. It wouldn't be the first time there's been issues with words and definitions.
Click to expand...

It is not the first time I have read or heard the term 'white trash'. Almost always by Americans and almost never affectionately. As much as you would like to picture me as someone who is solely viewing this terminology through a UK lens I am not. I have asked Americans on many occasions to justify their use of such language. I have always concluded though that the very people who use it, do not really see themselves as 'white trash'. This has been my experience.

I don't call people white trash anymore. I like the term 'people of walmart' and hey - I shop at walmart.;)
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You don't use it anymore? Why not?
 
Can we not have this 'chav' bollocks on this thread please? It's bad enough that we have DM just being here doing his usual thread destruction without helping the prick. Just ignore him.
 
butchersapron said:
Can we not have this 'chav' bollocks on this thread please? It's bad enough that we have DM just being here doing his usual thread destruction without helping the prick. Just ignore him.
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I only know one chav...or 'former' chav. I wouldn't describe her as 'white trash'.

You're telling other people to ignore me while apparently you don't have me on ignore. Please do.:)
 
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