Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what, ACAB
NUS national protest against the cuts 10.11.10 [London]
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what, ACAB
winjer
holocene death beat
There's nothing about clothes in what you posted.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
ah yes, how sloppy of me. good point. I should also point out I asked the mods to check my post, as i certainly don't wanna drop mike in it.
love detective
there's no love too small
'the new politics'
Whilst entirely ignoring the shenanigans by revol68 et al ... no surprises there then ...
What about the right of the "scabs" to make their own decision (rightly or wrongly) and their right to carry out any legal activity (in this case continuing to work) without being threatened with violence if they do?
Whilst I understand the points that you make about the relative positions fo "workers" and employers, any avoidance of the rights of individual "workers" to disagree with the union / their striking colleagues requires an assumption that the union / strikers are always assumed to be absolutely right. I am afraid I cannot see the justification for anything that any people are required to do by threat or use of force. That is, to my mind, simply impossible to incorporate with any view of a genuine democracy.
fractionMan
Custom Title
You should note that I have not ruled out all unlawful means - I have specifically discussed that relatively minor offending should be tolerated as part of a wider protest, etc. I would draw the line at anything which caused (or threatened) significant injury to anyone (including their being terrorised or intimidated in any deliberate way) or which caused serious (defined in the context of the individual facts - eg. putting graffiti on a police vehicle does not cause "serious" harm to the police as an organisation as putting the same graffiti on the single vehicle owned by a small business would) damage or damge likely to endanger life (e.g. arson)
I think we are in danger of following the media agenda on the student demo. That is, to waste time discussing aspects of the action at Millbank. The media just want to discredit opponents of government policy. Let's ignore the media on this story.
The real topic is the effect of the cuts as it affects not only students but the rest of us. The students have lead the way with their massive march and now we need to follow up with protests by all of us whether public sector employees or users of public sector provision. This is everyone really. We must support each other across the groups we belong to and not allow ourselves to be picked off group by group.
Also protests at the failure of Nick Clegg and the Libdems to hold to pre-election promises are a reasonable start, but really the enemy is the whole of the coalition government with its 18 millionaires. They do not represent the people and the people did not vote for them.
The real topic is the effect of the cuts as it affects not only students but the rest of us. The students have lead the way with their massive march and now we need to follow up with protests by all of us whether public sector employees or users of public sector provision. This is everyone really. We must support each other across the groups we belong to and not allow ourselves to be picked off group by group.
Also protests at the failure of Nick Clegg and the Libdems to hold to pre-election promises are a reasonable start, but really the enemy is the whole of the coalition government with its 18 millionaires. They do not represent the people and the people did not vote for them.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
by that logic i should ignore any law passed i dont like. Fair play.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the legality of undermining your fellow worker does not affect the fact that it is a moral wrong- and yes I invoked morality. Because the law has no basis in morality save a shadow of judeo-christian stuff when it suits the suits.
today's evening standard is a beauty.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23897962-police-release-pictures-of-studnent-tuition-fee-riot-suspects.do
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23897962-police-release-pictures-of-studnent-tuition-fee-riot-suspects.do
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Police investigation finds that most students arrested at student riot were students!!!
Fuck me, now there's a surprise....
So you would spend resources on keeping the old and infirm alive for longer than nature intends and NOT fund education for the young then, yes?
You don't really expect them to accurately portray what I post, do you?
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
I wouldn't necessarily agree that this should be an "either... or" thing, but it is surprising how many resources remain being funnelled towards the older end of the population at the expense of the younger ends.
Yeah, because there's our two choices right there.
Forget wars and tax avoidance of the rich, you can choose to punish the young or the old. Which is it to be?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Can't we narrow the focus to individuals?
Best to keep it to whole sections of society. Because as we know, the rich can afford the best education and private hospital treatment. So they don't get affected by either decision.
Much like these cuts that are happening.
I suspect some pressure to inject something a little more interesting into a pretty interesting but, for most people, arcane piece about Scotland Yard internal politics ...
(The sidelining of Micky Messenger was one of Blairs biggest mistakes and the subsequent loss of other highly experienced senior officers coincided with the increasing lack of "grip" over public order officers (particularly the TSG) which culminated in the criticism in "Adapting to Protest" after G20. To go from where the Met was in Micky Messenger's day to where it is now in a handful of years is a dreadful example of how quickly experience and expertise can be squandered).
ah micky. A coppers cop. Old school. I watched him squirm like fuck at the mayday 2001 unlawful containment hearing, when he and every senior copper on the stand refused to take repsonsibility for the decisons they made on the day and passed the blame down the line so some other poor sod would take the blame. A coppers cop and no mistake.
As opposed to your enlightening contributions ... such as your first response to me on the thread, totally out of nowhere:
People may think that the downward trajectory of the thread can be traced back to your arrival ...
No.
Please explain how allowing one group of people to enforce their views on another group by threats and / or force whilst not allowing that other group to simply go about their (entirely lawful) business would be "impartial". It would, I suggest, be entirely partial - it would intervene to enforce the views of the "workers" / strikers.
No. You should be able to ignore any action taken by / opinion expressed by any other group of citizens ... which, of course, you are. The strikers do not pass a law, they express a particular opinion ...
Only according to your morals ... which is why morals should have no place in the criminal law - they are entirely subjective ...
I have never said that they are our only two choices, have I?
winjer
holocene death beat
He's supposedly editing a book on Public Order Law & Practice, it's been pushed backed regularly for four years now. And from his evidence in Austin v Commissioner, it would seem Messenger was in charge when the methods most criticised in Adapting to Protest were introduced, and personally responsible for much of it..
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