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NUS national protest against the cuts 10.11.10 [London]

Heartless though it may seem, at the extreme, if we couldn't do both, I would divert funding from keeping the old and infirm alive longer than nature intends and divert it to improving the prospects of the young.
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You are scum.
 
You might feel that you shouldn't need to, but you should think about starting contributions with statements like the above, db. I could pick holes in it, but its broad thrust is one that endears you to me generally speaking. And I'm sure others would be the same.

I've had to learn this about Urban myself, and used to get myself into trouble by not prefacing potentially inflammatory comments with provisos. But this is the internet. You have to be very explicit about what you say and how you say it. Otherwise you will be taken the wrong way.
 
revol68 said:
No it's just one of Pig Boy's increasingly desperate reasons for condemning the protesters.
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Except he hasn't. I agree with some of DBs points (that the post "riot" witch hunt is over the top) and disagree with others. (that the workers inside the building were in anyway in fear etc) but for someone from his position I think his posts have been pretty reasonable and certainly less vitriolic in condemning the "violent students" than some of those who oppose the entire demonstration. It seems to me that the hostility shown to him has more to do with the fact that he is an ex cop than anything he has actually posted. I respect DB even if I disagree with him and I think the demands for him to fuck off etc are out of order frankly.

There is an argument here based on differing political analysis of our society. Some who believe that Britain is a liberal democracy also believe that such a lib democracy requires a rule of law and that such a rule of law is fair and even in its reach (DBs view). It follows from this logic then that illegal acts are always unacceptable attacks on a democratic system. If you prescribe to this view then of course the violence of the demonstration is unacceptable.

I disagree with this analysis. I believe that British democracy is in effect a smokescreen for the class rule of unrepresentative elites who rule in their interests and those interests are diametrically opposed to mine. As such the law, though presented as fair and unbiased is actually structured in such a way as to defend the interests of those elites.. Not blatantly. this is rule of the velvet glove. But it defends the class interests of the powerful simply by the process of defending the status quo. When workers go on strike the police are called to a picket line in order to "keep the peace" and I am sure the individual cop thinks he is doing precisely that. But "the peace" is not neutral in class conflict. The peace suits the scabs and the bosses who will use the peace to break the strike. When the strikers act to defend their interests by stopping the scabs crossing the picket line the police act to enforce the "peace" and allow the strike breakers to cross.The workers have no choice but to engage in conflict or to face defeat. So they act to stop the scabs and of course they are presented as the aggressors. And this is because the "peace," the status quo is not neutral. It's a bosses peace and the law defends it by defending the status quo.

If, as I do, you hold the view that this is a class society then it follows that revolutionary violence in response to attacks on hard earned rights is not only justified but necessary if we are not to go down to defeat.

My view is very simple and consistent. The post war gains of the working people of this country are under an unprecedented attack by those in power who will use every means at their disposal to enforce those attacks. As such it is morally justified to use whatever means are necessary to resist them. Any means necessary. Losing this fight simply is not an option and restricting ourselves to only peaceful or legal means will mean defeat and that is simply unthinkable.
 
he condemns the students by condemning actions outside of the law.

he is an apologist for the status quo and no amount of hand wringing wank will stop that, people like him are far more effective defenders of the ruling class than a blatant right winger.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
All right. Fine. pk and db are both banned for the weekend for calling people cunts after it was posted that anyone calling anyone else a cunt would be banned for the weekend.
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Actually, thinking about it, that's a pretty stupid reaction. The issue isn't 'are you calling others cunts'. As madz pointed out, calling her a 'lying bitch' was worse if anything. Intent is far more important than which particular word is used for the abuse.
 
revol68 said:
well isn't that problem he's such a horrible excuse for a human that he thinks that it's possible to say such things in a non nasty way.
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But you are not doing our argument any favours with the endless "fuck off pig" stuff either. This is a great thread, 78 pages long, and as such it is an opportunity to put forward class arguments especially to those who haven't considered them before. The justification of revolutionary violence is intrinsically connected to the argument about class society and the nature of law in defending class interests. Dpn't waste the opportunity
 
dylans said:
But you are not doing our argument any favours with the endless "fuck off pig" stuff either. This is a great thread, 78 pages long, and as such it is an opportunity to put forward class arguments especially to those who haven't considered them before. The justification of revolutionary violence is intrinsically connected to the argument about class society and the nature of law in defending class interests. Dpn't waste the opportunity
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I've made the arguments plenty of times in this thread, I also happen to think that DB has no place on such threads and really I find it odd that a site with Urbans origins tolerates him.
 
also his comment about letting the elderly die as "nature intended" let slip the horrible social darwinist utilitarianism that runs through his thought.

as a gay man he should be well wary of arguments about "as nature intended".
 
revol68 said:
also his comment about letting the elderly die as "nature intended" let slip the horrible social darwinist utilitarianism that runs through his thought.

as a gay man he should be well wary of arguments about "as nature intended".
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Ham-fisted though the attempt was, there's a little more to it than you quoted.

detective-boy said:
As for the justification, what the ConDems are doing is totally, completely and utterly wrong. Yes there need to be savings ... but their prioritisation is all wrong. Young people are the future of this country and without education and training (I wouldn't necessarily agree that everyone needs to go to university but every young person should be educated and / or trained for a future role in our country's economic recovery) that future is bleak. Heartless though it may seem, at the extreme, if we couldn't do both, I would divert funding from keeping the old and infirm alive longer than nature intends and divert it to improving the prospects of the young.
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Maurice Picarda said:
That's an ill-judged comment, there.
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Yep.
 
detective-boy said:
This "office worker" ... they were working in the reception area at 30 Millbank, yes? (If not, your point is .... ??? :confused:)

I really don't understand why a few idiots are attempting to convince everyone that the reception staff in 30 Millbank would never have felt the slightest bit concerned for their safety at any stage. It is patently obvious to any normal person that there would have come a time when they were seriously concerned for their safety and so they, er, left ... I seriously do not understand why a few idiots are making this such a big deal. Why does it fucking matter how scared they were anyway? It makes no difference to anyone's argument ... :rolleyes:
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erm, i wasn't actually responding to anything you said D-B, i was adding to what shaman75 had already said regarding the Office Workers in the building and NOT the Reception Staff...
 
damn didn't realise he was banned.. serves me right for going afk for several hours in the middle of a threadnaught...
 
revol68 said:
he condemns the students by condemning actions outside of the law.

he is an apologist for the status quo and no amount of hand wringing wank will stop that, people like him are far more effective defenders of the ruling class than a blatant right winger.
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you are quite ridiculous. I can't work out whether you're 6 or 15 - all I know is that you're a little Manu Utd fan from the south of England who sits in his room with a sticky keyboard.

DB's comments were quite reasonable. Of course some of the teeny boppers actions were outside of the law and it will be right that they are brought to book - hopefully the insurance company will seek to recover costs from them if they are identified. I suspect they will also be sacked from whatever poly they hailed.

You seem to have a real problem with getting on with life and existing alongside other human beings - and have more chips on your shoulder than most here.

You should get out more away from your sticky keyboard
 
gunneradt said:
you are quite ridiculous. I can't work out whether you're 6 or 15 - all I know is that you're a little Manu Utd fan from the south of England who sits in his room with a sticky keyboard.

DB's comments were quite reasonable. Of course some of the teeny boppers actions were outside of the law and it will be right that they are brought to book - hopefully the insurance company will seek to recover costs from them if they are identified. I suspect they will also be sacked from whatever poly they hailed.

You seem to have a real problem with getting on with life and existing alongside other human beings - and have more chips on your shoulder than most here.

You should get out more away from your sticky keyboard
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I don't disagree with much of that, but I think he's actually from the north of Ireland.
 
gunneradt said:
you are quite ridiculous. I can't work out whether you're 6 or 15 - all I know is that you're a little Manu Utd fan from the south of England who sits in his room with a sticky keyboard.

DB's comments were quite reasonable. Of course some of the teeny boppers actions were outside of the law and it will be right that they are brought to book - hopefully the insurance company will seek to recover costs from them if they are identified. I suspect they will also be sacked from whatever poly they hailed.

You seem to have a real problem with getting on with life and existing alongside other human beings - and have more chips on your shoulder than most here.

You should get out more away from your sticky keyboard
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From Northern Ireland you clown.

And yes like the majority on these boards I do have a chip on my shoulder about the inequality and injustice at the heart of society.

You come across as a content smug middle class wanker who snipes at people who have the brains and balls to identify injustice and to try and do something about it.
 
revol68 said:
From Northern Ireland you clown.

And yes like the majority on these boards I do have a chip on my shoulder about the inequality and injustice at the heart of society.

You come across as a content smug middle class wanker who snipes at people who have the brains and balls to identify injustice and to try and do something about it.
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I just typed a reply but the board eat it

I think the gist was relax - it aint gonna make a blind bit of difference.
 
gunneradt said:
I just typed a reply but the board eat it

I think the gist was relax - it aint gonna make a blind bit of difference.
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Oh look at Daddy Cool, "just relax, man".

Bit of a turn around from you boasting of how you'd have given the protesters a kicking and hoping they get the full wrath of the law.

Whether something ends up making a difference or not is secondary to whether something is right or wrong, we can never be certain what difference our actions will actually make but we can know whether it is the right to try and make that difference. Everything else is cowardice.
 
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