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NUS national protest against the cuts 10.11.10 [London]

where to said:
they should of done that in the first place and nobody would of been at risk of a "Ghost" (the film) style slaying by glass.
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Of course they would - the protestors who would have been coming through the window with the large pieces of plate glass poised to fall on them ...

The police had a duty to try and prevent people doing that for their own safety. They tried but were unable to do so. They did not add to the danger to anyone else in any way - all they did (as police officers often do) was put themselves in danger in the interests if others.

... but no they were ordered to hold a stupid fucking line putting everyone in danger because their seniors couldn't see what was happening on the ground and didn't trust their judgement.
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I doubt very much that the decision to try and cordon the broken window from both sides (clearly for safety reasons - there would be no other reason to stop people going out through it) would have been made by a senior constable, sergeant or inspector actually there - that level of micromanagement by operation commanders is simply not possible in disorder situations and certainly not, as here, where it is highly unlikley that they had much, if any, detailed live footage of what was happening.
 
where to said:
yup and there's an interesting correlation between the numbers of Tory party staff on the scene and the numbers of general staff who have reported being scared or attacked in the papers: zero of either.
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Just because there is nothing in the papers doesn't mean the accounts do not exist. Wait until later. I will have £20 with you (for the server fund) that we eventually get accounts of the people working in reception which clearly demonstrate that they were terrified for their own safety.
 
detective-boy said:
Just because there is nothing in the papers doesn't mean the accounts do not exist. Wait until later. I will have £20 with you (for the server fund) that we eventually get accounts of the people working in reception which clearly demonstrate that they were terrified for their own safety.
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If there was even a whiff of such an account or angle the papers would have been on it in a flash and using it to attack the protesters.
 
detective-boy said:
Of course they would - the protestors who would have been coming through the window with the large pieces of plate glass poised to fall on them ...
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Have you actually looked at footage? It wasn't bog standard plate glass. It wasn't going to drop in great chunks onto everyone or decapitate anyone. It was clearly some kind of safety glass. You're talking such bullshit. You dress everything up in jargon but you're thick as the proverbial two short planks really, aren't you?
 
detective-boy said:
Just because there is nothing in the papers doesn't mean the accounts do not exist. Wait until later. I will have £20 with you (for the server fund) that we eventually get accounts of the people working in reception which clearly demonstrate that they were terrified for their own safety.
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No pictures of them actually being terrified while it was all going off though. Funny that.
 
detective-boy said:
Of course they would - the protestors who would have been coming through the window with the large pieces of plate glass poised to fall on them ...

The police had a duty to try and prevent people doing that for their own safety. They tried but were unable to do so. They did not add to the danger to anyone else in any way - all they did (as police officers often do) was put themselves in danger in the interests if others.
Click to expand...
but no they were ordered to hold a stupid fucking line putting everyone in danger because their seniors couldn't see what was happening on the ground and didn't trust their judgement.[/quote]
I doubt very much that the decision to try and cordon the broken window from both sides (clearly for safety reasons - there would be no other reason to stop people going out through it) would have been made by a senior constable, sergeant or inspector actually there - that level of micromanagement by operation commanders is simply not possible in disorder situations and certainly not, as here, where it is highly unlikley that they had much, if any, detailed live footage of what was happening.[/QUOTE]

Id have let them have glass fall on them
 
detective-boy said:
things changed at some point
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things changed the moment protesters entered their building. any normal workplace would stop work at that moment there and then. nobody was scared though.

detective-boy said:
and they (and everyone else) became seriously worried about their safety and so they, er, left.
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i'll be kind and say these are assumptions. its probably more accurately described as made up rubbish though.


detective-boy said:
It is fuckwitted to suggest that they would not have been at all shaken up by that experience, having to leave their place of work because a mob was smashing their way in intent on who knows what (bear in mind that a flare had earlier set off the building fire alarm
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er, if the fire alarm had gone off they would DEFINITELY have left the building already then, no?

i'll ignore the bit where you're seem to be saying i'm not a normal person. i assume you didn't meant that the way it came across. right?
 
detective-boy said:
Of course they would - the protestors who would have been coming through the window with the large pieces of plate glass poised to fall on them ...
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i'm not haranguing them for this as it was obviously a really difficult moment to make decisions , but the effect of them defending the access was to keep a constant human presence right under that glass, and one which was pushing, shoving, extremely dangerous and made it more likely for the glass to fall. we can agree to disagree though, its all hindsight anyway. one things for sure, there were no receptionists around during this period.

detective-boy said:
and certainly not, as here, where it is highly unlikley that they had much, if any, detailed live footage of what was happening.
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it was on live tv, no?
 
where to said:
nobody was scared though ... i'll be kind and say these are assumptions. its probably more accurately described as made up rubbish though.
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Why did they leave then? Why did they not stay where they were?

er, if the fire alarm had gone off they would DEFINITELY have left the building already then, no?
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There were reports of some leaving (by a rear fire exit) and then returning when it was quickly established it was smoke from the flare which had set it off. This was in the very early stages of the incident I think, when the protestors were still outside and the reception staff were still in reception.

i'll ignore the bit where you're seem to be saying i'm not a normal person. i assume you didn't meant that the way it came across. right?
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No. I meant that if you are seriously suggesting that the staff working in reception did not become seriously concerned for their safety at some stage (which caused them to leave) then you are not normal. If the hat fits, wear it.
 
madzone said:
Have you actually looked at footage? It wasn't bog standard plate glass. It wasn't going to drop in great chunks onto everyone or decapitate anyone. It was clearly some kind of safety glass. You're talking such bullshit. You dress everything up in jargon but you're thick as the proverbial two short planks really, aren't you?
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Exactly. I was there and the window only broke when it was subjected to near constant attack for over 2 hours. It was definitely a laminated safety glass. As for the police being attacked. That's just more poppycock.
 
detective-boy said:
No Collective.

No circle jerk.

No tag team.

Not here! Oh no!
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Are you quite well? I don't think you are. You've been clutching at straws and having great big sparkly hissy fits when all it would have taken is ONE tiny bit of footage or a picture to back up your silly assumption. Just ONE.
 
detective-boy said:
Bits were ... but not the sort of detailed footage of the surrounding situation as well as any particular trouble spots that would normally be available, and certainly not under the command of the Control Room staff.
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What surrounding situation in particular?

You don't think that the press would have creamed themselves to find a photo opportunity of some terrified staff?
 
nino_savatte said:
As for the police being attacked. That's just more poppycock.
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Of course it is dear.

Those pictures of the line of officers being pushed back and then through the broken window, holding people back with batons drawn are just imaginary. And the injured ones probably injured themselves too. Bastards! :rolleyes:
 
Right so the likes of Sky News who reported falling newspapers as concrete being thrown from the roof and little placards as "FLAMING TORCHES!" would not have been dying to find some terrified cowering staff.

What planet do you live on?
 
detective-boy said:
Of course it is dear.

Those pictures of the line of officers being pushed back and then through the broken window, holding people back with batons drawn are just imaginary. And the injured ones probably injured themselves too. Bastards! :rolleyes:
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If you think a bit of pushing and shoving equals attacking the police you need to come to Belfast.

Cops in England obviously don't get put in their place enough, too busy pushing around hippies and smacking people who don't fight back.
 
detective-boy said:
Of course it is dear.

Those pictures of the line of officers being pushed back and then through the broken window, holding people back with batons drawn are just imaginary. And the injured ones probably injured themselves too. Bastards! :rolleyes:
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Were you there? I was. The cops drew their batons for no other reason than to look tough. They weren't being attacked and if they'd had any sense at all they wouldn't have been standing in front of a dirty great window, dear.
 
I've seen the video of people walking into the building



it also shows a smoke canister going off, which surely set off the fire alarms.

this article contains the testimony of a worker on the third floor of the tower, who says that the fire alarm went off at 1am and they were all outside.

http://www.publicaffairsnews.com/no...as-rioters-turn-violent-at-millbank-tower/73/

presumably, when the fire alarm went off, reception staff also left and couldn't get back in because the lobby was full of people.

here's a tweet which presumably relates to news reports saying that staff aren't feeling threatened in the tower

http://twitter.com/#!/markberry/status/2387219251732483

and another one which says the bbc are trying to ascertain if staff feel threatened. and they say they aren't.

http://twitter.com/#!/simonpjbest/status/2387319466233856
 
Guardian said:
Danny Alexander, wrote: "On tuition fees we should seek agreement on part-time students and leave the rest. We will have clear yellow water with the other [parties] on raising the tuition fee cap, so let us not cause ourselves more headaches."
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...only a libdem could write that into a policy document with a straight face... :D :mad:
 
shaman75 said:
here's a tweet which presumably relates to news reports saying that staff aren't feeling threatened in the tower

http://twitter.com/#!/markberry/status/2387219251732483

and another one which says the bbc are trying to ascertain if staff feel threatened. and they say they aren't.

http://twitter.com/#!/simonpjbest/status/2387319466233856
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I was home from work that day and watched it all unfold on BBC news. The presenter who was covering the story had an office worker from millbank on the phone and for the duration of the interview he was desperately trying to get the office worker to admit that they were in fear of the protesters. He failed.

Although i paraphrase, at one point the interview sort of ran like this:

Presenter: "But surely you are all feeling scared in the office right now?"
Office worker: "Not really, no"
Presenter: "But surely you are all feeling worried for your safety in the office right now?"
Office worker: "No, not really. They have a right to express their views..."
Presenter: "Aren't you all just a little unsettled by everything going on out there?"
Office worker: "Well.... No, it's actually ok in here despite what you are showing at the moment"
Presenter: "Will you not agree with me that you aren't all at least the teensiest bit concerned by proceedings..."
Office worker: "No"

..and so on for about 5 minutes or so :D

The subtext of the questioning was quite clear: try and get the worker to admit that there was even a tiny possibility that people in the office may be slightly concerned so their comments would be blown out of all proportion. Fair play to the office worker for not falling for it :)
 
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