NUS national protest against the cuts 10.11.10 [London]

[dylans]

You a student dylans? You on yesterdays protest?

I'm the only person in my family to go to university and I would like the same for my son.

 

[Citizen66]

That's why I'm so riled about it, I went and said my bit, made my point, then came home, but I may aswell not have bothered, alongside the other 50,000 odd students who were also peaceful, because we're getting no credit or coverage. Not only that, but it's assumed that we were all behaving like that, which isn't fair.

But you can't dictate how others act when on a demonstration. Demonstrators who opt for all out civil disobedience don't piss and moan about the spineless wonders who don't want to break a fingernail so what gives you the right to sneer at their form of protest?

 

[kyser_soze]

The head of my student union at Teesside University Laurie Wheatman was on the phone to the radio; when asked how long it was going to take us to get home, she commented that we had been on the bus for an hour and a half, and were still not yet out of central London. His response to that, was that it was a hold up that we ouselves had caused. This was an unfair and untrue comment to make.

Untruthful and woefully ignorant of London geography. Even if you were leaving via Viccy coach station, that Millbank was closed for a couple of hours wouldn't have impacted your slow crawl out of town during the rush hour.

The very fact that this thread is 37 pages long

Probably about 3 pages if you take out all the 'WOE IS ME!! I AM TEH OPPRESSED!! HEAR ME CRY OUT IN THE DARKNESS' posts from jer.

 

[A. Spies]

I'm strongly opposed to such a drastic rise in fees, but I got that accross with chants and banners,

Do you think that your planned day out and slow march across london would've been as dramatic though? At least this came across a bit more empowered and less cowed. Stuff like this makes it seem less inevitable that big things are just going to happen and those they effect are all going to stay within well defined boundries and hope that someone listens.

Like others have said the message they sent out from the roof was spot on, this isn't just a rise in fees it's a full on assault on society, particularly the poorest and the disabled - if this spreads a feeling of uncontrollability and empowerment among other protests and groups I think it's marginally a good thing. It's good to show that you're fucking angry and it's good to see the police embarrassed.

 

[stethoscope]

Don't worry Student_Teacher, moon23 is a Lib Dem and here to help you!

 

[krtek a houby]

you talk about there being violence but it was just a few windows being smashed

I said this thread is pro-violence, as in advocating violence as a means to achieve their political goals.

I also stated earlier that I am against violence being used in these circumstances.

I fully support the demo, otherwise. I just think it was rash to do what they did.

 

[eoin_k]

Jer

Aren't you from Ireland? Yesterdays events hardly count as political violence. A few smashed windows a couple of bloody noses and a few individuals allegedly behaving in a reckless manner with a fire extinguisher. It is hardly the Troubles?

Much more severe violence is meeted out to protestors in every country in the world every year, certainly in Britain and Ireland. Look at the G20, Look at the Gardai's latest attack on some students who were sitting in the road.

 

[krtek a houby]

Probably about 3 pages if you take out all the 'WOE IS ME!! I AM TEH OPPRESSED!! HEAR ME CRY OUT IN THE DARKNESS' posts from jer.

Alternatively, why not cherry pick and remove the usual baiting posts from the usual urbanistas whenever I happen to offer my opinions? You'd probably reduce it to about 20 pages. It is flattering how a few of you appear to hang on my every utterance, mind.

 

[chilango]

I went to Uni because my wages as a teaching assistant wern't enough to get a foot on the property ladder, is things go as proposed, I'll be in the same position, with a shedload of debt to boot.

There's no "if" about it.

That's already the situation, and has been for some time, for many graduates (and many qualified, experienced teachers well into their careers).

 

[Random]

I said this thread is pro-violence, as in advocating violence as a means to achieve their political goals.

Yes, the kerb stones on this thread are painted red and black

 

[chilango]

I said this thread is pro-violence, as in advocating violence as a means to achieve their political goals.

I also stated earlier that I am against violence being used in these circumstances.

I fully support the demo, otherwise. I just think it was rash to do what they did.

Are people actually "advocating" violence? or rather are they choosing not to to condemn it, but accept that (at times) it achieves things?

 

[Random]

Are people actually "advocating" violence? or rather are they choosing not to to condemn it, but accept that (at times) it achieves things?

Some people are advocating violent direct action, others advocating millitancy, others soberly admitting that it can be a good idea. But to jer this just dissolves into a welter of baying for blood. I think he has difficulty seeing people as individuals.

 

[Flanflinger]

I'm the only person in my family to go to university and I would like the same for my son.

So if your son wants a new toy will you be expecting others to pay for it ?

 

[kyser_soze]

I went to Uni because my wages as a teaching assistant wern't enough to get a foot on the property ladder, is things go as proposed, I'll be in the same position, with a shedload of debt to boot.

HA! I went to uni in the 1990s, and despite having earned a lot, I've never been in a position to get onto the 'property ladder' on my own income. Missed that boat in 1997 and it's never been back since.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

jaysus.. the times must be changing when Billy Bragg is turning against the lilydems..

Billy Bragg: Lib Dems have failed democracy, not students

Those lining up to condemn the actions of students at Millbank as contrary to the traditions of democracy should be reminded it is the Liberal Democrats who have failed to live up to those traditions, not the students.............

The students laid down the first challenge to the coming cuts. How long will it be before they are joined by nurses, teachers, firemen and public sector workers? And perhaps by the same policemen who confronted them.

 

[dylans]

So if your son wants a new toy will you be expecting others to pay for it ?

Education isn't a toy it's a right. If you want to follow the line that sees education as a privilage (of the rich) then at least be consistent and demand the abolishment of all free state education.

If you fail to see that an educated population is of national importance then by all means advocate a policy of education only for the rich and suggest that working class people know their place and stay in the factory because that is exactly what the tories have in mind.

I will reserve the right to think you are a cunt.

 

[krtek a houby]

Jer

Aren't you from Ireland? Yesterdays events hardly count as political violence. A few smashed windows a couple of bloody noses and a few individuals allegedly behaving in a reckless manner with a fire extinguisher. It is hardly the Troubles?

Much more severe violence is meeted out to protestors in every country in the world every year, certainly in Britain and Ireland. Look at the G20, Look at the Gardai's latest attack on some students who were sitting in the road.

Yes, it is not anything like the Troubles and I wouldn't insult anyone who has suffered as a result of said Troubles by attempting to compare them and yesterday.

And I'm certainly not condoning Garda or police brutality; having been on the receiving end a couple of times. I just don't buy into physical confrontation unless it's absolutely the only option. And I believe there were plenty of non violent actions yesterday.

 

[ymu]

That's why I'm so riled about it, I went and said my bit, made my point, then came home, but I may aswell not have bothered, alongside the other 50,000 odd students who were also peaceful, because we're getting no credit or coverage. Not only that, but it's assumed that we were all behaving like that, which isn't fair.

You are aware that 2 million people did exactly that seven and a half years ago? You're also, presumably, aware that the UK went ahead and got involved in Iraq anyway?

This isn't about polishing your halo, it's about real lives which will be devastated by these cuts and people screwed over for generations to come. If all you can think of to post about is how much you disagree with those who got a tad irate and did things you personally wouldn't, then why the fuck did you bother going on the march in the first place? You should be delighted that it all kicked off whatever your views on political violence. It means that this time there is enough anger to possibly get shit changed. Assuming that's what you actually want, of course.

 

[kyser_soze]

I think the issue is this:

I went to Uni because my wages as a teaching assistant wern't enough to get a foot on the property ladder, is things go as proposed, I'll be in the same position, with a shedload of debt to boot.

Not 'Because I believe free university education is a right' but 'I want to buy a house'.

 

[Streathamite]

I said this thread is pro-violence, as in advocating violence as a means to achieve their political goals.

I also stated earlier that I am against violence being used in these circumstances.

no-one's "advocating violence" more like simply refusing to condemn it

 

[Idris2002]

Yes, it is not anything like the Troubles and I wouldn't insult anyone who has suffered as a result of said Troubles by attempting to compare them and yesterday.

And I'm certainly not condoning Garda or police brutality; having been on the receiving end a couple of times. I just don't buy into physical confrontation unless it's absolutely the only option. And I believe there were plenty of non violent actions yesterday.

Why do you think physical confrontation is not the only option now, after all that's happened? (that's not a rhetorical question, btw)

You are aware that 2 million people did exactly that seven and a half years ago? You're also, presumably, aware that the UK went ahead and got involved in Iraq anyway?

This isn't about polishing your halo, it's about real lives which will be devastated by these cuts and people screwed over for generations to come. If all you can think of to post about is how much you disagree with those who got a tad irate and did things you personally wouldn't, then why the fuck did you bother going on the march in the first place? You should be delighted that it all kicked off whatever your views on political violence. It means that this time there is enough anger to possibly get shit changed. Assuming that's what you actually want, of course.

Seconded.

 

[Streathamite]

Good luck to you. You're posting on a pro-violence thread, so I don't think you're going to win any converts.

In fairness to the shouties; they're all armchair warriors, their youth long slipped by, they've had to conform, conform, conform and as such they are consumed with self loathing. They could only dream of possessing the vitality of your cause. But being cynical, decaying elders they are too tainted by their disappointments and if they could steal your fire, they would stamp it out immediately and replace it with their own noxious conflagration.

and you wonder why people rip you to pieces when you post braindamaged shite like this?

 

[Random]

I just don't buy into physical confrontation unless it's absolutely the only option. And I believe there were plenty of non violent actions yesterday.

It doesn't have to be the only option, just a useful option.

 

[the button]

and you wonder why people rip you to pieces when you post braindamaged shite like this?

Just thought I'd get an early "boo-hoo" in about using braindamaged as a term of abuse.

 

[Student_Teacher]

Yeah, played right into their hands, didn't they? Once again the reasons for the protest will be ignored in favour of salacious coverage of the violence.

Well done, dickheads.

Well said!!!

 

[Crispy]

At least you got some media interest at all.

 

[Random]

I don't see how anyone can say that the reasons for the protest got less coverage bcause of the occupation.

 

[chilango]

Well said!!!

But that's patent bollocks.

This is getting tonnes of covereage. Lots and lots about the reasons too.

Let me quote the BBC at you:

the emotional drama of an old-fashioned student demo turning ugly provided pictures which shunted the story of a protest march against tuition fees from a few paragraphs on page 17 to the front page of every paper.

In that sense, violence works: questions in Parliament; media debate; water-cooler conversations. A few broken windows have prompted tens of thousands of words on the fairness of university funding proposals

 

[gawkrodger]

And if you actually look throughthe national press, there's a fair amount of coverage of why people were/are so pissed off, and clearly stating links to the wider cuts issue as a whole.



Which there wouldn't have been if there'd been a column of page 13

 

[Citizen66]

I think student teacher should organise the next 'protest' where everyone can gather round peacefully and sing hymns to jer on his cross.