"Not enough in the pension pot" my arse
- Thread starter pilchardman
- Start date
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
OK. If we're doing that thing where no idea's a bad idea, they're all in the mix for discussion. And just off the top of my head. How about this: right, Bob Maxwell and the pensions. Making the link between Brown and Maxwell. Trying to get Brown done for misuse of pension funds.
Or...
Or...
I think a start would be increasing the state pension and linking it to either wages or inflation (whichever the highest) and fund this through corporation tax on profits and income tax since too many can opt out of NI.
Then if people wish to take out private pensions feel free to do so- just as they can play the £100 bandit down the Workingmens Club.
Then if people wish to take out private pensions feel free to do so- just as they can play the £100 bandit down the Workingmens Club.
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
Excellent. We could start at, say, £180 per week. Right, I'll get onto this in the morning.herman said:
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
Oh. Hold on. There's a flaw in that plan, I feel sure. It's nagging at me... It's on the tip of my tongue...
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
That's more like it. That's something the community can get behind and actually carry out.sihhi said:
sihhi said:
I was in no means meaning to denigrate the political clout of pensioners, but was stating the limits of pensioners in terms of protest over private pensions.
Once you depend on a pension as a source of income you will be in no position to boycott the pension. THis is why I believe that the pensions fight has to come to the heart of the working class struggle. Its about not only defending a "cradle to grave ethos" but turning this into the core of the idea behind struggle.
Sure we resisted a war, an there will be political fallout, we defeated a polltax, but the marginalisation of the pensions issue (which it has been for far too long) is allowing the rolling back of a century of reform.
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
Which?kropotkin said:
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
kropotkin said:
Labour. Every five years, Cynic.
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
It's the whole post Thatcher consensus thing. The neo liberal agenda. The Washington Consensus. Call it what you will.kropotkin said:
But we can challenge the consensus on this issue. What's more, we must.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Kropotkin,
It's partly because there's this overdone attack idea of an ageing population idea of Britain and not enough kids being churned out.
If present trends continue fertility rate will hit 0.32 in 20 years type, and 0.0 in 26 years type stuff etc...
It's strange how this is forgotten:
http://www.globalaging.org/pension/world/2004/well.htm
It's partly because there's this overdone attack idea of an ageing population idea of Britain and not enough kids being churned out.
If present trends continue fertility rate will hit 0.32 in 20 years type, and 0.0 in 26 years type stuff etc...
It's strange how this is forgotten:
http://www.globalaging.org/pension/world/2004/well.htm
I fear there are too many here making light of the pensions issue so I will attempt to put this in pespective.
The class struggle, however it is expressed in this country, has lowered itself to the lowest form of economism. When your factory is about to close it is easy enough to motivate people to join a union and figh or even to take "unofficial" action. Talk about pensions and get met with a blank stare.
But we live in a society where things move fast, and it is easy to get hypnotised by shady pension sellers with pretty colourful graphs on their laptop. They are the agents of lying scum who care nothing about whether your fund colapses 10 years down the line.
The class struggle, however it is expressed in this country, has lowered itself to the lowest form of economism. When your factory is about to close it is easy enough to motivate people to join a union and figh or even to take "unofficial" action. Talk about pensions and get met with a blank stare.
But we live in a society where things move fast, and it is easy to get hypnotised by shady pension sellers with pretty colourful graphs on their laptop. They are the agents of lying scum who care nothing about whether your fund colapses 10 years down the line.
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
Are there? Who?herman said:
sihhi said:
Indeed they are. It has parallels in the selling of council housing.
If we have stake in capitalism then we have more to lose by its demise (or so the the idea runs).
But even within a the capitalist society we live in to take the bait of using your owhn money to exploit yourself is an idea to which I'd recommend no one subscribes.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
herman said:
Apparently Northern Ireland will be severely affected.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3737854.stm
What I find difficult to stomach is the implied idea that people are spending too much money and not keeping it in the bank.
from above article
When there's a "downturn in the economy" approaching we're then blamed for spending too little money.
sihhi said:
The entire tone of the news article should set alarm bells ringing.
We are told that the problem is an ageing population- so its our fault for getting old.
We are told that its the fault of us because- we did not prepare enough for our retirement.
This probably illustrates as good as anythin else how far political debate has shifted to the right over the last few decades.
We are blamed for time and we are blamed for existing beyond what is functionally useful to corporations.
There is no piggy bank for us.- its either give money to arms dealers etc on trust or don't but the long term has to involve a re assertion of what socialism is supposed to mean.
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
Absolutely. And if you try and discuss anything outside those parameters, you're either not listened to, or you're dismissed as belonging to the past. Part of a barking minority.herman said:
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
pilchardman said:
The thing I want to know is how much the dependency ratio (18-65 years : 65+ year olds) has actually changed over the past 20 years.
I'm not against people over 65 working per se. But I don't think they should be forced to. As butchers said £80bn fiddled out of corporation taxes.
sihhi said:
Out of interest I will see if I can google some stats on this but the whole idea of depndency I find a bit distasteful. Whether or not such notions are based on neo-Malthusian approaches or not they would only give a one sided answer to the question. They could only be balanced if we consider productivity per head and income distribution. Otherwise taken alone they can possibly sell us red herrings.
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
There's a good article in the News Line ( 
I I know) about this today:
http://www.wrp.org.uk/news/editorial/index.shtml
I I know) about this today:http://www.wrp.org.uk/news/editorial/index.shtml
State and corporate pensions have turned out to be a massive fraud.
Where the fuck has all the money gone?
When I can afford it, I'm going to invest in renewable energies shares, they'll only be going in one direction.
Where the fuck has all the money gone?
When I can afford it, I'm going to invest in renewable energies shares, they'll only be going in one direction.
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