Noncey or Sexually Inappropriate Music

[Spymaster]

and the second time you thought the same, no doubt

No. I knew what was going to happen the second time. It's a memory thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[Kaka Tim]

There’s no funny side anymore. That’s the point. White people can’t sing that word. Ever. At least not and have it broadcasted. I’m not aware of any instances of it since Oliver’s Army. It’s always edited out.

Dead Kennedys - Holiday in Cambodia

Patti Smith - Rock'n'Roll Nigger.

Kennedys, Patti Smith and costello - are very much on the left wing/anti-racist/anti-fascist side of the fence - but does this give them a license to use the n word in this way? Problematic. I cant imagine Smith plays that song any more - it's used every other word.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There’s no funny side anymore. That’s the point. White people can’t sing that word. Ever. At least not and have it broadcasted. I’m not aware of any instances of it since Oliver’s Army. It’s always edited out.

Be hard to edit this. Still sounds good tbf. But gets pretty hard later on.... Jackson Pollock? Really?

Spoiler

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Dead Kennedys - Holiday in Cambodia

Patti Smith - Rock'n'Roll Nigger.

Kennedys, Patti Smith and costello - are very much on the left wing/anti-racist/anti-fascist side of the fence - but does this give them a license to use the n word in this way? Problematic. I cant imagine Smith plays that song any more - it's used every other word.

Yeah, relistening to that, I'd be surprised if she played that now.

Lou Reed quietly dropped the 'coloured' from 'and the coloured girls sing' in Walk on the Wild Side when he performed it live in later years. That jars when I listen to it now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Dead Kennedys - Holiday in Cambodia

it's always been clear to me that that 'nigger' was what the subject of the song thought, that the entire song's against affected liberals who play ethnicky jazz but are racist wankers behind a mask. but if you've a different interpretation i'd be very interested to hear it.

 

[Reno]

Patti Smith still occasionally plays Rock'n'Roll Nigger live, but she said in an interview she does so rarely "out of respect for our times".

I had a black boyfriend when I lived in the States, who was mainly into punk and indie rock and he loved that song. For him it was a "fuck you" to people's expectations in regard to his musical tastes based on his race. Then again, I'm aware that he can only speak for himself.

 

[Reno]

...and here is my contribution for German speakers:

 

[hash tag]

I forgot about Wyman. Slept with a 14 year old but somehow gets a pass. I'll never understand that one.

How come Wyman got away with it?

Did he actually do anything though, do we have proof?
Her mother knew all about it - and his money.

 

[hash tag]

Dr Jimmy...
"What is it? I'll take it
Who is she? I'll rape it"
"You say she's a virgin
I'm gonna be the first in"

Age is not directly referred to, lyrics are unpleasant though.

 

[friedaweed]

There’s no funny side anymore. That’s the point. White people can’t sing that word. Ever. At least not and have it broadcasted. I’m not aware of any instances of it since Oliver’s Army. It’s always edited out.

What about Bob Dylan's song about Ruben Carter, The Hurricane? Not sure I've ever heard that edited

[Verse 9]
All of Rubin’s cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance
The judge made Rubin’s witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched, he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigga
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger
And though they could not produce the gun
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed

This always comes up in that discussion.

Anyway back to noncing people...

 

[Kaka Tim]

it's always been clear to me that that 'nigger' was what the subject of the song thought, that the entire song's against affected liberals who play ethnicky jazz but are racist wankers behind a mask. but if you've a different interpretation i'd be very interested to hear it.

well - that's my take too. but even so - its still problematic - as in can white people ever use the n word? File next to Oliver's Army.

 

[Pickman's model]

well - that's my take too. but even so - its still problematic - as in can white people ever use the n word? File next to Oliver's Army.

yeh well obvs not if it's one way but when it's taking the piss out of people who use it in a derogatory fashion, perhaps - just perhaps, mind - they can.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What about Bob Dylan's song about Ruben Carter, The Hurricane? Not sure I've ever heard that edited

[Verse 9]
All of Rubin’s cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance
The judge made Rubin’s witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched, he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigga
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger
And though they could not produce the gun
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed

This always comes up in that discussion.

Anyway back to noncing people...

That's a bit of an odd one as it's 'to the black folks' rather than to the white folks. tbh it looks a little like it was included there mostly because it rhymes with 'trigger'.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Dr Jimmy...
"What is it? I'll take it
Who is she? I'll rape it"
"You say she's a virgin
I'm gonna be the first in"

Age is not directly referred to, lyrics are unpleasant though.

good call. and followed by "her fellas gonner kill me/oh fucking will he?" The context is that it the songs character - pissed up and speeding off his head - full of aggro and bravado. But a casual listener is likely not going to get it. Someone should have had a word.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

good call. and followed by "her fellas gonner kill me/oh fucking will he?" The context is that it the songs character - pissed up and speeding off his head - full of aggro and bravado. But a casual listener is likely not going to get it. Someone should have had a word.

Do songwriters have a responsibility to be sure not to be taken the wrong way by a casual listener, though?

I'd say not, tbh. That Nick Cave says some frightful things in 'Stagger Lee', for instance. Up to the listener to make the effort to get what he's doing, surely.

 

[Kaka Tim]

yeh well obvs not if it's one way but when it's taking the piss out of people who use it in a derogatory fashion, perhaps - just perhaps, mind - they can.

Ive covered the song in bands and sung those lyrics - but ...is it ok? I dont know.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Do songwriters have a responsibility to be sure not to be taken the wrong way by a casual listener, though?

in some circumstances - like if it seemed they were condoning sexual violence or racism - I think they do.

 

[friedaweed]

That's a bit of an odd one as it's 'to the black folks' rather than to the white folks. tbh it looks a little like it was included there mostly because it rhymes with 'trigger'.

Yep is used in that context obvs but I think Dylan was a bit more of a wordsmith than to use it just for rhyming sake. There's quite a lot of references to it in articles that debate the N word use in music. There was a good one on his poet laureate status how we may look at other people who use it in the future as using it with poetic licence rather than for just effect. Currently on the hoof but will look for it later. .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yep is used in that context obvs but I think Dylan was a bit more of a wordsmith than to use it just for rhyming sake. There's quite a lot of references to it in articles that debate the N word use in music. There was a good one on his poet laureate status how we may look at other people who use it in the future as using it with poetic licence rather than for just effect. Currently on the hoof but will look for it later. .

Sylvia Plath used to use a rhyming dictionary when writing her poems. Poets can struggle to come up with good rhymes, and be very pleased when they find one.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I guess seeing as the Dylan song is all about raging against the racism of the police and justice system he gets a pass - I think with the Kennedys and Costello the overall context is less defined so its a bit more awkward.

 

[Pickman's model]

I guess seeing as the Dylan song is all about raging against the racism of the police and justice system he gets a pass - I think with the Kennedys and Costello the overall context is less defined so its a bit more awkward.

being as the dead kennedys drummer, dh peligro, is black, i think there's a slight chance they had a conversation about the lyrics before recording the song.

 

[hash tag]

Kaka Tim Theres more unpleasentness from them ....

I'm your wicked Uncle Ernie
I'm glad you won't see or hear me
As I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !

Your mother left me here to mind you
Now I'm doing what I want to
Fiddling about
Fiddling about
Fiddle about!

Down with the bedclothes
Up with the nightshirt!
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !

You won't shout as I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
Fiddle, fiddle, fiddle.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I did R Kelly, Remix to Ignition, at karaoke in May last year. I was fully aware of the #muteRKelly campaign, although it hadn't received quite the oomph that it has now. Kinda regretting my decision now.

Although it remains an awesome pop song. If it's any consolation, I absolutely murdered it in my performance.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Kaka Tim Theres more unpleasentness from them ....

I'm your wicked Uncle Ernie
I'm glad you won't see or hear me
As I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !

Your mother left me here to mind you
Now I'm doing what I want to
Fiddling about
Fiddling about
Fiddle about!

Down with the bedclothes
Up with the nightshirt!
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !

You won't shout as I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
Fiddle, fiddle, fiddle.

Think there are two categories here. This one comes under the category 'songs about nonces'. The other category is in the 'young girl get out of my mind'- type 'songs perhaps by nonces'.

 

[friedaweed]

Sylvia Plath used to use a rhyming dictionary when writing her poems. Poets can struggle to come up with good rhymes, and be very pleased when they find one.

Yeah for sure but I'd be surprised if that was the case here given the context in which the song was written. I do like Sylvia Plath. Great play/thing on radio 4 about her letters recently.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Kaka Tim Theres more unpleasentness from them ....

.

Uncle Ernie is an interesting one. Its clear its about a character and his behavior is not condoned - but its notable that its explored through the comedic "dirty old pervert in a mac" medium - a figure of fun. Especially Keith Moon's outrageously OTT performance of it in the Tommy film.
I guess it was how these people were portrayed back then - "sex maniacs" who were sexually incontinent and leapt out of bushes in flasher macs. The notion that such abuse - in so far that it was recognised at all - was about the exercise of power and was devastating to the victims was not as widely understood.

Also noteworthy is that townshend didn't write this song but asked entwhistle to instead - possibly because his own childhood experiences made it too close to home.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

I'm not even going to post the notorious Peter Wyngarde song, don't want it in my search history/suggestions. But it is mind-bogglingly wrong.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not even going to post the notorious Peter Wyngarde song, don't want it in my search history/suggestions. But it is mind-bogglingly wrong.

'Peter Wyngarde Commits Rape'? It was released as the single from the album as well. You're right, it is jaw-dropping.

 

[Spymaster]

'Peter Wyngarde Commits Rape'? It was released as the single from the album as well. You're right, it is jaw-dropping.

Just checked out the lyrics.

Just wow!