New Labour government - legislative agenda

[DotCommunist]

Did they? Or did they exacerbate an existing polycrisis 40 yrs in the making and reign for a decade + because they were preferable to a social democrat to our establishment?

do lower middle class people need to be reduced to the Victorian status of bob cratchit before they get this. This a period of capitalism rampant and worldwide instability. You can either make cause- common, negotiated- with the dirty scum who might have voted brexit even! oh no-or as I say, end up so close to the proletarian experience you begin to identify with it on a material basis. And we don't have time for that process to play out. Can you not see how fucked everything is, why am I still hearing about the good of balanced books when wages haven't risen in real terms my whole life? When rents have never, ever got cheaper.

 

[rasputin]

why am I still hearing about the good of balanced books when wages haven't risen in real terms my whole life? When rents have never, ever got cheaper.

The issue is not whether books balance, because they always do. The issue is whether you have unrealistic assumptions in there to make them balance. For example, if a spending commitment is funded by nothing better than "something will turn up" - good luck with that, because nobody is going to be offering their labour or other resources without being paid.

 

[PR1Berske]

We all look forward to you trying

If this is the attitude I've got to look forward to from you, I'll happily do more than just refraining from posting Twitter posts, I'll refrain from posting at all

Thought I was liked around here. Clearly not. Bye everybody.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I like this from Rayner. Only way to get some things done is to say fuck the NIMBY’S.

 

[JimW]

If this is the attitude I've got to look forward to from you, I'll happily do more than just refraining from posting Twitter posts, I'll refrain from posting at all

Thought I was liked around here. Clearly not. Bye everybody.

I enjoy your contribution, stay!

 

[DotCommunist]

If this is the attitude I've got to look forward to from you, I'll happily do more than just refraining from posting Twitter posts, I'll refrain from posting at all

Thought I was liked around here. Clearly not. Bye everybody.

would rather you stayed, we may diasgree on pol stuff I recon you're a good egg anyway.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Then AgeUK and others, including the DWP and local MPs, need to do a lot more to make sure they are claiming what they are eligible to receive. It's not good enough to just say, "X thousand are not claiming what they deserve and that's the end of it", as AgeUK seem to be doing.

what the phrase about escorting Equines to place of Aqueous hydration and compelling them to imbibe ?

 

[redsquirrel]

6. That said, it'd be chicken of me to avoid typing what I feel about today's announcements. I'm not surprised that these steps have had to be made outside the larger and more extensive Budget Day. The Tories were scorching the earth prior to the election defeat and it appears that they deliberately left traps for Labour to fall into. I'm no Tory (I'm far too gay, proud of the right to protest and supportive of the EU for that). They mishandled the economy for ideological reasons and should be called out for it. Labour won on the grounds of not being chaos.

DotCommunist and Smokeandsteam have addressed much of this already but there are huge numbers of assumptions here that you're taking as gospel. You have claimed that the current mess is due to the Tories (ideology) but how do Tory policies differ from Labour ones (excepting the Corbyn period)? The Labour Party was pro-austerity between 2010 and 2015, the Labour Party was in general alignment with the Johnson government during Covid, and both Labour and the Tories are fixated on growth and went into the most recent election on that basis, ignoring the fundamentals of the situation.

They have to balance the books.

What does this mean? Governments have existed with debt ever since the year dot. The % of debt relative GDP has been higher than it presently is in the past.

They have to exist within the financial rules of our general society, they're not the party of 'tax high, spend all " because we don't live in isolation from the consequences.

Again what does this mean? We certainly don't live in isolation of the consequences of the baked in austerity that Reeves and Starmer are intending to implement.

EDIT: Also would rather you stuck around

 

[InArduisFouette]

Targeting winter fuel payments just seems weird and utterly counter productive.

What happens if pensioners start claiming pension credit becoming eligible? Then they save nothing. For this to work surely it has to be something that a) people can't avoid and b) targets a lot of people (ie costs a lot).

while there are depending on the figures given 800k - 1million pensioners who are eligible for pension credit or the parts of UC that pensioners can claim but they don't claim, there are also a none trivial number of pensioners for whom the winter fuel payment was a 'nice little bonus'.

Pensioners still have the triple lock for this Parliament and their Twirly passes, their free prescriptions ( time and again the argument is that the cost of adminstering NHS prescription charges for the relatively small number of English prescriptions that attract them is excessive ) ...

 

[Serge Forward]

If this is the attitude I've got to look forward to from you, I'll happily do more than just refraining from posting Twitter posts, I'll refrain from posting at all

Thought I was liked around here. Clearly not. Bye everybody.

I like you. Don't always agree with you, mind, but who cares? So stick around. There are other posters I'd much rather see get to fuck.

 

[rasputin]

They have to balance the books.

What does this mean? Governments have existed with debt ever since the year dot. The % of debt relative GDP has been higher than it presently is in the past.

You are at cross purposes, I think. The entire concept of a balance sheet is that you have liabilities (debt) on one side and assets on the other.

 

[rasputin]

If this is the attitude I've got to look forward to from you, I'll happily do more than just refraining from posting Twitter posts, I'll refrain from posting at all

Thought I was liked around here. Clearly not. Bye everybody.

It can get very direct and shouty around here at times, I agree. But I've been on this site, on and off, for more than 20 years and it has some of the smartest and funniest contributors you will find anywhere. Beats all those wankers at the Grauniad hands down.

Don't take things personally. Please stay.

 

[redsquirrel]

You are at cross purposes, I think. The entire concept of a balance sheet is that you have liabilities (debt) on one side and assets on the other.

That is not what politicians are meaning when they talk about balancing the books

 

[The39thStep]

If this is the attitude I've got to look forward to from you, I'll happily do more than just refraining from posting Twitter posts, I'll refrain from posting at all

Thought I was liked around here. Clearly not. Bye everybody.

Argue your point, no need to personalise and don't flounce just because you've been challenged.

 

[andysays]

If this is the attitude I've got to look forward to from you, I'll happily do more than just refraining from posting Twitter posts, I'll refrain from posting at all

Thought I was liked around here. Clearly not. Bye everybody.

I think (hope) that Elpenor 's comment was intended as a leg pull rather than a wish that you would refrain from posting at all.

I for one appreciate that you have made an effort recently to add comment and context to your posting of Twitter posts, and like others who have said similar, I'd be sorry to see you go over something which appears relatively trivial.

 

[Elpenor]

To add to what everyone else has said PR1Berske please do keep contributing to the discussions on here.

andysays has it about right, it was a gentle leg pull, hence the

I also appreciate you posting tweets as images.

Your own personal views are far more interesting to me than just copying what someone else has said on Twitter / a live news feed. And ultimately that’s what we are here to share on these boards, our own views

 

[rasputin]

That is not what politicians are meaning when they talk about balancing the books

I'm sure you're right in that.

My point is that balanced books and debt are not incompatible. Indeed nearly every government on the planet, as well as most businesses, rely on debt to balance their books.

 

[NoXion]

The idea that governments have to "balance the books" is obvious garbage when you see how often their members end up giving away so much money and favourable contracts to their business mates. So we could afford to chuck billions at PFI and PPE that never turned up or was total dogshit, but we can't afford to spare a few millions ensuring that children don't go hungry and that pensioners don't die of exposure? Get to fuck. I'm really sick of politicians insulting our intelligence with asinine bullshit like "magic money trees", "hard working families" and "living within our means". It's just a nicer way of saying "fuck you pleb, you're on your own".

This Labour government is going to be full of that shit, aren't they?

 

[elbows]

They also make use of the Truss mini-budget consequences to underline the whole 'we must do what the markets want and cost and balance things in a certain way or they will fuck us' thing. This is tidy for them since it enables the policies that wing of the Labour party want.

 

[The39thStep]

The cuts to winter fuel allowances are for those not on pension credit or means tested benefits. Like free TV licenses there are many pensioners who don't benefit because they're fairly well off.

The Tories left the country in debt and debts need repaying.

It's highly debatable that public debt is an issue and 'needs paying back'. However, let's just say that you are advising the chancellor about different options to cover the £1.4bn that will be saved by axing the winter fuel allowance. Could you find and suggest some alternatives?

 

[Pickman's model]

Targeting winter fuel payments just seems weird and utterly counter productive.

What happens if pensioners start claiming pension credit becoming eligible? Then they save nothing. For this to work surely it has to be something that a) people can't avoid and b) targets a lot of people (ie costs a lot).

They'd better not protest or you'll be damning their eyes and demanding long sentences

 

[Smokeandsteam]

For those on here who do oppose cutting allowances to 2 million pensioners in poverty, Age UK have launched a petition against the cuts…

Save the Winter Fuel Payment for struggling pensioners

Sign Age UK's petition. Cutting the Winter Fuel Payment this winter, with virtually no notice and no compensatory measures to protect poor and vulnerable pensioners, is the wrong policy decision.

campaigns.ageuk.org.uk

Given that posting tweets is the cool thing to do on here these days this is also a good read on Reeves’ economic illiteracy:

 

[barlimo]

The cuts to winter fuel allowances are for those not on pension credit or means tested benefits. Like free TV licenses there are many pensioners who don't benefit because they're fairly well off.

The Tories left the country in debt and debts need repaying.

But a lot of them are far from being fairly well off!

 

[nottsgirl]

There’s already a real issue with pension credit being a passport to other things, which people on a tiny bit more money like just the state pension, don’t get. This will only aggravate that.

 

[barlimo]

There’s already a real issue with pension credit being a passport to other things, which people on a tiny bit more money like just the state pension, don’t get. This will only aggravate that.

Some of the things are:

1. Housing Benefit: If you rent the property you live in, you could receive additional support to cover housing costs.
2. Cost of Living Payments: These can help with general living expenses.
3. Support for Mortgage Interest: If you own the property you live in, you may qualify for this assistance.
4. Council Tax Discount: You could get a reduction in your council tax.

Dental treatment (If you can find a dentist) and help to buy spectacles.

 

[barlimo]

The government encourages people to save for their old age and then penalises them for doing so.

 

[wtfftw]

why not make the winter fuel payment a taxable benefit?

and maybe vital things like energy should cost less.

 

[wtfftw]

Obviously I think it's all backwards. tax serious wealth properly. universal basic income etc.

 

[two sheds]

Benefit cap traps families in crowded, rat-infested homes, report finds

Limit on support for low-income families, introduced in 2013, said to be pushing people deeper into poverty

www.theguardian.com

longer this goes on, more it's part of the New Labour government legislative agenda

and again it's going on while the government subsidizes landlords

 

[andysays]

First confirmation of what we've been expecting

'We'll have to increase taxes', says Reeves​

The chancellor has said the government will likely raise some taxes in October's Budget after months of speculation about Labour's stance on tax. "I think we will have to increase taxes in the Budget," Rachel Reeves told the News Agents podcast. On Tuesday, Ms Reeves repeated the Labour manifesto commitment of no VAT, national insurance, or income tax increases, but did not rule out inheritance tax, capital gains tax, or pension reform.