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My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

The burning question is at what level the cap will be set and for whom .The 'Scottish Power' plan (which this probably is under an assumed name) called for freezing energy prices at the current April 2022 price cap which is high but bearable for most. So I'd hope for that (lower would be nice). Freezing it at the October 2022 price cap is going to be crippling and the thought that this is as bad as it gets isn't going to be much comfort.
Also what about businesses? whilst the like of Rolls Royce and British Aerospace can probably stand a bit of pain, the local butchers and healthfood shops are going to need help as much as the domestic customers.
 
MickiQ said:
The burning question is at what level the cap will be set and for whom .The 'Scottish Power' plan (which this probably is under an assumed name) called for freezing energy prices at the current April 2022 price cap which is high but bearable for most. So I'd hope for that (lower would be nice). Freezing it at the October 2022 price cap is going to be crippling and the thought that this is as bad as it gets isn't going to be much comfort.
Also what about businesses? whilst the like of Rolls Royce and British Aerospace can probably stand a bit of pain, the local butchers and healthfood shops are going to need help as much as the domestic customers.
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Oh, it'll be botched, inept, and almost certainly some unworkable scheme that will make a slight difference to poverty-stricken users while offering some massive kickback to power companies and megacorps.
 
existentialist said:
I'm mildly surprised not to see the web full of instructions on how to bypass electricity meters... :hmm:
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Aside from the obvious risks of doing this it strikes me that this is another way that smart meters work for the energy suppliers. Since they phone home every 30 mins, it won't take long before someone start to wonder why a given address is no longer using any electricity.
 
MickiQ said:
Aside from the obvious risks of doing this it strikes me that this is another way that smart meters work for the energy suppliers. Since they phone home every 30 mins, it won't take long before someone start to wonder why a given address is no longer using any electricity.
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Indeed. And there are obvious risks, although I do find the mystical powers being attributed to electricity in order to dissuade people from trying rather amusing. I am absolutely sure that a competent electrician could arrange things perfectly safely. The stealthy aspect might be more of an issue, although since nobody ever seems to read meters, that might not be the problem it was.

Also, anyone who simply bypassed their meter - smart or otherwise - would be asking for trouble, as that's going to flag up pretty quickly, unless they submitted "fake" readings to look vaguely realistic.
 
Have been looking into solar power over the weekend. Why is it so complicated? Everything seems to be "here's a bunch of stuff, you pick it and hope it works together" or "here's a kit for you to assemble" or "contact us to install it all for you". On grid, I can sort of understand being complex, but off-grid? I've yet to find a simple "here's a box with a three pin socket on one end, solar panels plug in the other end". 🤷‍♂️
 
existentialist said:
Indeed. And there are obvious risks, although I do find the mystical powers being attributed to electricity in order to dissuade people from trying rather amusing. I am absolutely sure that a competent electrician could arrange things perfectly safely. The stealthy aspect might be more of an issue, although since nobody ever seems to read meters, that might not be the problem it was.

Also, anyone who simply bypassed their meter - smart or otherwise - would be asking for trouble, as that's going to flag up pretty quickly, unless they submitted "fake" readings to look vaguely realistic.
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My Irish son-in-law is an engineer at a specialised company that makes high tech shit. He did (mostly jokingly I think) suggest connecting a water pump casing to a portable electric generator and then feeding water from the outside tap through it to steal electricity off the water company.
 
I guess an announcement is in the offing - once Queen Truss is enthroned. I've heard talk of freezing the cap at current levels at a cost of £100bn? Surely cheaper to renationalise the energy companies?

Or a cheaper way would be to set up a British Energy Company - 100% owned by the Government, and get the public to sign up?
 
existentialist said:
Oh, it'll be botched, inept, and almost certainly some unworkable scheme that will make a slight difference to poverty-stricken users while offering some massive kickback to power companies and megacorps.
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Much like the pandemic bailouts, they cant actually afford to botch it that badly, it will have to broadly achieve its purpose because a total failure to offer meaningful support will be even more unworkable and unsustainable.
 
marty21 said:
I guess an announcement is in the offing - once Queen Truss is enthroned. I've heard talk of freezing the cap at current levels at a cost of £100bn? Surely cheaper to renationalise the energy companies?

Or a cheaper way would be to set up a British Energy Company - 100% owned by the Government, and get the public to sign up?
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You need to nationalise the generators to make a difference - not ovo.
 
marty21 said:
I guess an announcement is in the offing - once Queen Truss is enthroned. I've heard talk of freezing the cap at current levels at a cost of £100bn? Surely cheaper to renationalise the energy companies?

Or a cheaper way would be to set up a British Energy Company - 100% owned by the Government, and get the public to sign up?
Click to expand...
The figure of a tad under £3Bn has been touted for nationalising the distribution companies (by the TUC) but that would be on top of the £100Bn since we still have to buy the gas on the world markets and there is nowt any UK govt can do about that other than grit its teeth and pay it. A nationalised company doesnt have to make a profit so we would probably save some of that £100Bn at least but it doesn't matter. Nationalisation is unthinkable as far as the current government is concerned not least because when the unthinkable is thinked then it is no longer unthinkable and people will start asking difficult questions about 'If we nationalise energy distribution why not generation or water or the railways' so can't see it happening
 
BigTom said:
so that £170bn does include excess profits made by wind/solar/hydro/nuclear whose costs have not increased but whose income has risen in line with the rise in cost of gas generation, although the government decided not to include them in the current windfall tax.
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The rise in gas prices has not been caused by an increase in the cost of providing the gas. It's just that profiteering is the right of every capitalist where fossil fuels are concerned and a bloody outrage when it comes to renewables.
 
Raheem said:
The rise in gas prices has not been caused by an increase in the cost of providing the gas. It's just that profiteering is the right of every capitalist where fossil fuels are concerned and a bloody outrage when it comes to renewables.
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Ann Petifor in the FT argues that - in fact she is saying that many commodity prices are totally decoupled from wholesale - and set by speculators on the Chicago futures market.
And that Truss's immanent plan to deregulate further will be a disaster.
You are old Father William.... I can remember Harold Wilson and the Gnomes of Zurich!
 

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MickiQ said:
The figure of a tad under £3Bn has been touted for nationalising the distribution companies (by the TUC) but that would be on top of the £100Bn since we still have to buy the gas on the world markets and there is nowt any UK govt can do about that other than grit its teeth and pay it. A nationalised company doesnt have to make a profit so we would probably save some of that £100Bn at least but it doesn't matter. Nationalisation is unthinkable as far as the current government is concerned not least because when the unthinkable is thinked then it is no longer unthinkable and people will start asking difficult questions about 'If we nationalise energy distribution why not generation or water or the railways' so can't see it happening
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Yep, unthinkable a few years ago - and maybe not under the Tories - but the Labour Party should get ahead and promise this - I don't understand why they aren't all over this tbf
 
marty21 said:
Yep, unthinkable a few years ago - and maybe not under the Tories - but the Labour Party should get ahead and promise this - I don't understand why they aren't all over this tbf
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Neither do I to be truthful, Regardless of whether it is a good or a bad idea, all the polls indicate that it is a popular idea. Starmer seems to be so afraid that anything with the taint of Corbyn on it will cost him votes that he is ignoring those policies that could get him some. This is his chance to show a clear divide between him and Loopy Lizzie and he seems terrified of taking it.
 
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My assumption is that even if we were able to strip away the vulgarities and extreme distortions and profiteering of the markets, there would still be significant price fluctuations that reflect legitimate, very large issues with the practical reality of supply and demand.

I suppose the ideological justification for market based systems is that these price signals are supposed to be a magical self-healing mechanism which would direct investment to where it needed to go in order to build a future infrastructure that met demand. But thats only one side of that picture, the other one is that supply-demand imbalances are dealt with via massive demand destruction, especially in the short-medium term.

If the crazy markets end up sending price signals that cause a level of demand destruction that is political and economically unacceptable, then governments will try to find ways to disable or override big chunks of that system, since the market based 'cure' will cause more damage than the original disease. We are still then left having to face whatever actual supply-demand imbalances shortages etc are actually present. And that could still be a very ugly mess, but it will at least be one where the actual reality is closer to the surface, where governments have more direct control during an intense crisis rather than abdicating their responsibilities to markets. Risks to this approach include that if you are not longer relying on market layers, disputes and deals will occur more directly between nation states, with less layers of plausible deniability of responsibility and buck passing. And it will not be sufficient to rely on rigging the game by writing the biggest cheques, you'll also need to engage in diplomacy with other countries properly and not fall out, and how will countries that throw their weight around overcome the tendancy of nations to ultimately 'look after their own first' if there are supply crunches all over the place at the same time?

Regardless of the extent to which governments do or do not end up stripping away or attempting to stabilise some market layers, other fundamentals will still be in the driving seat when it comes to quite how bad things get this winter. The weather will be an important factor, as will the extent that supply issues cascade into a complete nightmare. For example a lot of traditional resilience plans when it comes to security of energy supply lean heavily on the idea that if one nation has a shortfall, use can be made of interconnected systems between European countries, one country can compensate for anothers shortfall. That will break down quickly if everyone is having the same sort of problems at the same time. The gas situation on its own may be tricky enough to cope with, but start chucking in issues with French nuclear power stations being offline and a load of other stuff and the worst case situations will look very bleak. Maybe we will dodge those bullets, maybe we wont, but we'll have done very well if we manage this winter to keep public perceptions of the energy crisis as being one of price rather than availability.
 
magneze said:
"Smart" thermostat shenanigans:
www.theverge.com

A utility company locked thousands of customers out of their smart thermostats in Colorado

An epic heatwave is suffocating the western US.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
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Seems fair enough, if you sign up for this sort of deal, you can't expect them not to do it. 🤷‍♂️

All of the customers affected had enrolled in an energy-saving program, called AC Rewards, that’s meant to ease the strain on the power grid during heatwaves. Xcel can adjust those customers’ smart thermostats when demand gets so high that there might not be enough supply to meet it. Xcel offers a one-time $100 credit on electricity bills upon signing up, and $25 a year afterward for participation.
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pinkmonkey said:
I’ve heard nothing from eon.next so far, I have power of attorney for my father, I deal with the bills. When the direct debit goes up in October, his pension won’t cover it, he has no overdraft facility and no credit cards or anything like that, I had it removed a couple of years ago when he got into debt, between us 3 siblings, we paid it off.

What do folks think, am I in my rights to ask them to keep the direct debit the same?

We know that a debt is likely to build up, but my brother told me he’d be able to pay it off. Dad has rheumatoid arthritis. My parents have definitely cut down their energy use, we got rid of an old fridge freezer, that took £20 off the bills per month, they use ipads for entertainment, big telly stays off, don’t use oven anymore, stuff like that. It’s heating the house that I’m concerned about, the temperature dropped a little bit this week and he’s already in pain. 91 year olds can’t sit in the cold. Dad built this house, it’s big and the main living space is open plan, what are we supposed to do, build walls so we can heat one bit?
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If you haven't done already and nobody else has suggested it already (in which case, apologies), it'd be worth registering for their priority services system for your Dad. It won't mean they can never cut him off, but should mean a more gentle approach to being in debt.
 
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