My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

[fucthest8]

Well, it's convinced me to sign up to Don't Pay. Time to stop talking about it and actually do something.
I'm in favour of, well, literally anything that means the government and energy firms can't ignore what's happening to people. It's time to burn some things down. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

 

[BristolEcho]

A couple with 2.4 children i guess.

Living in a house too I assume. We're paying £69 currently so suspect it will go up to £130.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The cap has been raised to be more than £3500 for the average household. Raised from £1800 in April.

I just don't know how people are going to be able to cope.

Labour calls for emergency budget as energy cap set to top £3,500

Ofgem announcement will ‘strike fear’ into hearts, says Rachel Reeves, amid accusations of profiteering at oil and gas firms

www.theguardian.com

Just looking at it from a business sense. It is just going to force more people into debt or for them to refuse to pay. It is going to tank the rest of the economy while one sector gets all the profits. It's crazy.

Looking at it from a moral viewpoint it's disgusting.

This 'cap' business is a bad fucking joke. In the one hand it's no use to customers because it keeps going up; on the other hand it makes a mockery of the whole 'free market' thing that's supposed to be the justification for having this privatised shitshow in the first place.

 

[fucthest8]

Not worked mine out yet

My provider - Octopus - has introduced Crystal Ball mode on their forecast tool, which attempts to estimate the cost of my usage on what they think the changes to price cap will mean, so including the next move.

It projects my January bill at £500. Last year was about £120 iirc
3 bed mid terrace, new-ish double glazing all round, roof properly insulated etc.

 

[cupid_stunt]

What is a typical household? I've seen this loads of times, but never an explanation of what it is.

I just worked out the cost of my annual usage*, which is around 25% less than the price cap, so I can make fairly accurate estimates going forward, then I can ensure any change in my DD is about right, i.e. up from £125 to £225pm.

* 2-bed semi, well insulated & double glazed, just me most of the time, but I work from home.

 

[moochedit]

This 'cap' business is a bad fucking joke. In the one hand it's no use to customers because it keeps going up; on the other hand it makes a mockery of the whole 'free market' thing that's supposed to be the justification for having this privatised shitshow in the first place.

They should keep the cap as it is, wait for the companies to go bust and then nationalise them. (Not gonna happen i know)

 

[brogdale]

Second up against the wall...

Who we are​

Ofgem is Great Britain’s independent energy regulator.
We work to protect energy consumers, especially vulnerable people, by ensuring they are treated fairly and benefit from a cleaner, greener environment.

 

[moochedit]

I just worked out the cost of my annual usage*, which is around 25% less than the price cap, so I can make fairly accurate estimates going forward, then I can ensure any change in my DD is about right, i.e. up from £125 to £225pm.

* 2-bed semi, well insulated & double glazed, just me most of the time, but I work from home.

My current combined gas and electric direct debit is £160 a month. So i guess i need to add 80% to that? Edit - £288

 

[kabbes]

Very good impassioned and audibly upset speech from Martin Lewis on Radio 4 about how shit the government have been, how everybody saw this coming 6 months ago and how people are going to die as a result.

 

[moochedit]

Meanwhile Russia is burning gas off

BBC: Climate change: Russia burning huge amounts of gas, puzzling experts.

Climate change: Russia burns off gas as Europe's energy bills rocket

Russia is burning off millions of dollars in gas every day at a plant near the Finnish border.

www.bbc.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

They should keep the cap as it is, wait for the companies to go bust and then nationalise them. (Not gonna happen i know)

Even if that was done, it wouldn't help so long as we're locked into the international wholesale prices, as we will still end-up paying for it directly, or indirectly in taxes over the coming years if the government pays the different between what customers are paying and the actual price.

The supply companies on average make less than £30 per year per household, which is a drop in the ocean.

It's the producers that are ranking it in, the only sensible suggestion I've heard came from the boss of one of the green energy suppliers. He pointed out the UK produces about 50% of our gas and about 90% of our electric, so all of that should be capped at last year's price, exception being electric produced from gas, thus we only pay the international wholesale prices on what we import.

The cost of drilling for gas has not gone up, nor has electric produced by nuclear or renewables, but clearly electric from gas fuelled power stations will have gone up, but that increase would be halved if UK produced gas wasn't linked to international prices.

I am sure it would be complex to sort out, but not impossible.

 

[Elpenor]

Well my bill is £85 and an 80% rise is £153 but I suspect it will be higher than that

I’m not able to work overtime anymore at work so I’m 10% worse off from September anyway.

 

[kabbes]

Meanwhile Russia is burning gas off

BBC: Climate change: Russia burning huge amounts of gas, puzzling experts.

Climate change: Russia burns off gas as Europe's energy bills rocket

Russia is burning off millions of dollars in gas every day at a plant near the Finnish border.

www.bbc.com

If Russia can’t sell it to Europe, they may well have no choice but to burn it off. They have a certain capacity for storage and pipes to other regions are tiny compared with their pipes to Europe.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Meanwhile Russia is burning gas off

BBC: Climate change: Russia burning huge amounts of gas, puzzling experts.

Climate change: Russia burns off gas as Europe's energy bills rocket

Russia is burning off millions of dollars in gas every day at a plant near the Finnish border.

www.bbc.com

As Europe's energy costs skyrocket, Russia is burning off large amounts of natural gas, according to analysis shared with BBC News.
Experts say the gas would previously have been exported to Germany.
They say the plant near the border with Finland, is burning an estimated $10m (£8.4m) worth of gas every day.
Scientists are concerned about the large volumes of carbon dioxide and soot it is creating, which could exacerbate the melting of Arctic ice.
The analysis by Rystad Energy indicates that around 4.34 million cubic metres of gas are being burned by the flare every day.

Fucking hell!

 

[Cerv]

What is a typical household? I've seen this loads of times, but never an explanation of what it is.

a right pain in the arse is what it is.

can you imagine if the cost of petrol or bread was quoted in the same way? a notional annual total instead of per litre or per loaf.

 

[two sheds]

a right pain in the arse is what it is.

can you imagine if the cost of petrol or bread was quoted in the same way? a notional annual total instead of per litre or per loaf.

yes, why do they not quote figures in kWh?

And better Russia burn off the gas instead of just releasing it into the atmosphere (better would be not wasting it at all of course).

 

[Ax^]

pretty cringe watching the bbc talk about the rise this morning and interview the public
whilst not even making a remark about the government reaction to this

 

[CH1]

a right pain in the arse is what it is.

can you imagine if the cost of petrol or bread was quoted in the same way? a notional annual total instead of per litre or per loaf.

You are not allowing for the Existential subscription model of material life now well established.
The TV license has of course been vilified by the far right and Brexiteers "DEFUND THE BBC!", but the real villains are IT

• look how you can no longer buy an HP printer without HP+ - a license to print pages under the control of software linked to Dr Evil in Palo Alto who dictates you are now ready for more paper or ink or toner. All this for a measly subscription of $9.99 a month or whatever.
• then there is the ubiquitous Amazon Prime - where unless you take it you get surcharged to deliver your book or DVD order

This can only go so far. Consider the case of the Renaissance Church of Rome. For hundred of years they had imposed tithes on the population - but when services rendered were not commensurate with subscriptions paid there was a revolt

• Henry VIII rebelled when the Pope would not allow him a divorce and as a result the Catholic church lost all its lands and buildings in England to the crown and its cronies - and of course we landed up with Dr Welby
• similarly in Euroland Martin Luther got fed up with the Pope touting pardons (to avoid eternal damnation) at a fee to pay for the likes of Michelangelo and Bernini to remodel St Peter's Basilica. Hence the 95 Theses - and half of Germany going Protestant at a stroke when the German aristocracy cottoned on to the massive savings to be made.

Actually it may be in time that those whose fuel Direct Debits have doubled now are less impacted than those like me who have chosen the pay-as-you go model. I have no idea what my December fuel be will be - except it will be a Mamoth

 

[Artaxerxes]

pretty cringe watching the bbc talk about the rise this morning and interview the public
whilst not even making a remark about the government reaction to this

What government reaction?

 

[Ax^]

What government reaction?

more trying desperately not to make any remark about the government's lack of action or planning
just odd to see

 

[prunus]

a right pain in the arse is what it is.

can you imagine if the cost of petrol or bread was quoted in the same way? a notional annual total instead of per litre or per loaf.

The actual kWh prices (which no bloody news outlet ever seems to list ) are here:

Check if the energy price cap affects you

The energy price cap is backstop protection from the government for people who default onto their supplier's basic energy tariff.

www.ofgem.gov.uk

Electricity going up 86%

Gas going up by 114%(!)

 

[Cerv]

And better Russia burn off the gas instead of just releasing it into the atmosphere (better would be not wasting it at all of course).

isn't releasing gas directly into the atmosphere likely to explode your plant? a controlled burn must be safer.

but yeah, obviously ramping down production and not wasting any at all would be better. just how fucked is the state of Russian industry if they can't manage that.

 

[SpookyFrank]

pretty cringe watching the bbc talk about the rise this morning and interview the public
whilst not even making a remark about the government reaction to this

Government, yeah good one.

 

[alex_]

Even if that was done, it wouldn't help so long as we're locked into the international wholesale prices, as we will still end-up paying for it directly, or indirectly in taxes over the coming years if the government pays the different between what customers are paying and the actual price.

The supply companies on average make less than £30 per year per household, which is a drop in the ocean.

It's the producers that are ranking it in, the only sensible suggestion I've heard came from the boss of one of the green energy suppliers. He pointed out the UK produces about 50% of our gas and about 90% of our electric, so all of that should be capped at last year's price, exception being electric produced from gas, thus we only pay the international wholesale prices on what we import.

The cost of drilling for gas has not gone up, nor has electric produced by nuclear or renewables, but clearly electric from gas fuelled power stations will have gone up, but that increase would be halved if UK produced gas wasn't linked to international prices.

I am sure it would be complex to sort out, but not impossible.

The government should have encouraged producers to increase domestic solar and wind before this winter. But they’ve done fuck all.

To be honest - if all they’d done is a variant of the renewables reverse auctions with the condition that planning permission was granted on the basis that systems would be generating before 1st November ( or whenever ) - the suppliers would have done the rest “for free” - and would have been fighting to do it.

What has actually been happening is that truss and Sunak have been busy telling Tory party members that they’d ban on shore solar and wind -the cheapest and quickest renewable energy sources.

( random internet source - solar farms take 2 months to build How Long Does It Take To Construct A Solar Farm? | YSG Solar )

And anyone saying “but solar doesn’t generate at night - it doesn’t matter - electricity costs currently are being driven by total gas quantity used - if you reduce the % you reduce the cost

 

[two sheds]

isn't releasing gas directly into the atmosphere likely to explode your plant? a controlled burn must be safer.

I was thinking of the climate effects but yes indeed.

but yeah, obviously ramping down production and not wasting any at all would be better. just how fucked is the state of Russian industry if they can't manage that.

Mind you I think lots of western oil & gas producers still flare loads of gas. I wonder whether this is being described as 'burn off' to make it sound worse than flaring. It's a conspiracy I tell you

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

The government should have encouraged producers to increase domestic solar and wind before this winter. But they’ve done fuck all.

To be honest - if all they’d done is a variant of the renewables reverse auctions with the condition that planning permission was granted on the basis that systems would be generating before 1st November ( or whenever ) - the suppliers would have done the rest “for free” - and would have been fighting to do it.

What has actually been happening is that truss and Sunak have been busy telling Tory party members that they’d ban on shore solar and wind -the cheapest and quickest renewable energy sources.

( random internet source - solar farms take 2 months to build How Long Does It Take To Construct A Solar Farm? | YSG Solar )

And anyone saying “but solar doesn’t generate at night - it doesn’t matter - electricity costs currently are being driven by total gas quantity used - if you reduce the % you reduce the cost

I think getting planning permission will lenghten the process somewhat though thanks to the nimby brigade.

 

[alex_]

I think getting planning permission will lenghten the process somewhat though thanks to the nimby brigade.

Suitably determined Central government could have overridden this eg hs2.

ex-raf and army sites, land around existing and ex power stations ( which already have grid connections ) would all have been really obvious choices.

 

[Ax^]

Government, yeah good one.

ofgen is a government regulator is it not

 

[SpookyFrank]

ofgen is a government regulator is it not

It is to regulation what the pull-out method is to contraception.

 

[MickiQ]

Very good impassioned and audibly upset speech from Martin Lewis on Radio 4 about how shit the government have been, how everybody saw this coming 6 months ago and how people are going to die as a result.

the one remaining voice of reason crying out in the wilderness where no-one listens.

yes, why do they not quote figures in kWh?

And better Russia burn off the gas instead of just releasing it into the atmosphere (better would be not wasting it at all of course).

Methane is a greenhouse gas but not as bad as CO2 plus it breaks down very rapidly in the atmosphere about 12 years compared to 100,000's for CO2. They flare it as a safety precaution (even the Russians take some) to prevent a localised explosion.
One of the things scientists looking for ET are searching for is the signature of methane since if it exists long term it means something is renewing it and on Earth that means life.

My energy bills are currently £210 per month so an 80% increase would be £378 it's a good job my mortgage is long paid off. I don't know what the actual figure will be, that £210 was calculated back in Sept when there were 5 adults in the house , now there are 2 plus a third during Uni non-term times (though she's costing me a mint during term times anyway) plus I have taken a lot of steps to actively cut down my usage since then.

The only way out of this is for the Government to subsidise the price of energy several ways it can do this:-

1. Nationalise the distribution companies and just accept running them at a loss supported by general taxation. I suspect most people want this and it is probably the best idea so it's a pity it's the least likely.

2. Do the Scottish Power thing, freeze the price cap and guarantee loans to the distribution companies so they can afford to buy gas.

3. Expand the Rishi Rich bribery scheme and just hand out dosh directly or indirectly.

The biggest problem at the moment is not the price rise, it's the fact that our Govt appears to have gone AWOL in the middle of a massive crisis. BoZo has stopped even pretending to be interested in the job and Loopy Lizzie and Rishi Rich are too busy trying to win the big seat by convincing 0.005% of the electorate that each of them are less 'woke' than the other.