My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

[surreybrowncap]

So, the smart meters were installed last week, after 4 days I noticed the electric charge seemed a bit high, then I noticed the amount charged by 6am averaged a higher cost per hour than during the day when I am clearly using more, that made no sense.

So, I started to think, 'oh, fuck, here we go again', and dreading having to contact OVO again.

Then I had a light bulb moment, remembering it's a touch screen monitor, I touched the amount and if by magic it changed to show kwh used, which was what I expected, then the penny dropped that the amount shown includes the daily standing charge, which is added just after midnight, and also includes the VAT.

Not that that's mentioned in the handy guide they give me, in fact it actually says the amount is for 'use', but a quick google search confirmed my conclusion.

Can't believe I was almost out smarted by a bloody meter thingy!

They'll be charging you for that light bulb moment....

 

[cupid_stunt]

We however, are a bit less surprised.

 

[MickiQ]

So, the smart meters were installed last week, after 4 days I noticed the electric charge seemed a bit high, then I noticed the amount charged by 6am averaged a higher cost per hour than during the day when I am clearly using more, that made no sense.

So, I started to think, 'oh, fuck, here we go again', and dreading having to contact OVO again.

Then I had a light bulb moment, remembering it's a touch screen monitor, I touched the amount and if by magic it changed to show kwh used, which was what I expected, then the penny dropped that the amount shown includes the daily standing charge, which is added just after midnight, and also includes the VAT.

Not that that's mentioned in the handy guide they give me, in fact it actually says the amount is for 'use', but a quick google search confirmed my conclusion.

Can't believe I was almost out smarted by a bloody meter thingy!

I did not know but it does make sense

 

[Elpenor]

So, the smart meters were installed last week, after 4 days I noticed the electric charge seemed a bit high, then I noticed the amount charged by 6am averaged a higher cost per hour than during the day when I am clearly using more, that made no sense.

So, I started to think, 'oh, fuck, here we go again', and dreading having to contact OVO again.

Then I had a light bulb moment, remembering it's a touch screen monitor, I touched the amount and if by magic it changed to show kwh used, which was what I expected, then the penny dropped that the amount shown includes the daily standing charge, which is added just after midnight, and also includes the VAT.

Not that that's mentioned in the handy guide they give me, in fact it actually says the amount is for 'use', but a quick google search confirmed my conclusion.

Can't believe I was almost out smarted by a bloody meter thingy!

Lol even I figured that out for myself

 

[cupid_stunt]

I did not know but it does make sense

It does, or least it would if the guide said the amount includes the standing charge & VAT, whereas it just says 'use', that was the root of my confusion.

So, I blame OVO.

 

[mentalchik]

I'm obviously in a bubble at the moment....don't pay by DD, pay quarterly bills which i usually split into 2 payments with no hassle, am on a fixed rate till next April and my latest quarterly bill is actally £130 less than the last one !

 

[Elpenor]

I'm obviously in a bubble at the moment....don't pay by DD, pay quarterly bills which i usually split into 2 payments with no hassle, am on a fixed rate till next April and my latest quarterly bill is actally £130 less than the last one !

I had a nice fixed rate till April 2023 until I moved and was no longer on economy 7!

 

[teqniq]

Petition: Nationalise Energy Companies

The Government needs to take back ownership of strategic energy assets. It needs to accept that the Free Market has failed the energy sector, that it is in the national interest to renationalise our energy assets. The Government must therefore renationalise all the UK energy assets.

petition.parliament.uk

 

[Pickman's model]

You'll like this Ofgem confirms energy price cap to be updated every three months but not a lot

 

[CH1]

You'll like this Ofgem confirms energy price cap to be updated every three months but not a lot

What's the point of calling it a cap then?
A cap would be a government limit above which they cannot go - determined by the government.
All OFGEM do is follow the market - and distribute the wreckage when their authorised retail sellers go bust.

 

[Pickman's model]

What's the point of calling it a cap then?
A cap would be a government limit above which they cannot go - determined by the government.
All OFGEM do is follow the market - and distribute the wreckage when their authorised retail sellers go bust.

yeh it's really shite. what they're saying now if we're going to fuck you all with inflation if the leccy and gas bills don't get you first.

 

[skyscraper101]

What's the point of calling it a cap then?
A cap would be a government limit above which they cannot go - determined by the government.
All OFGEM do is follow the market - and distribute the wreckage when their authorised retail sellers go bust.

It's always been a temporary cap (though now more temporary than before) designed in part to guarantee a rate energy firms can bill at which is higher than the wholesale price.

Obviously though that royally fucked over all the firms depending the wholesale cost being lower than the cap to survive.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's always been a temporary cap (though now more temporary than before) designed in part to guarantee a rate energy firms can bill at which is higher than the wholesale price.

Obviously though that royally fucked over all the firms depending the wholesale cost being lower than the cap to survive.

it makes you question why there should be an intermediary sector between the energy producer and the energy purchaser.

 

[MickiQ]

it makes you question why there should be an intermediary sector between the energy producer and the energy purchaser.

Well it worked fine before when there wasn't both as a private monopoly and a public monopoly before that. Our Lords & Masters were however obsessed with bringing us the 'benefits' of competition. Since however no utility company was deranged enough to consider spending billions to lay new pipes and cables all over the place we ended up with the current smoke and mirrors version.
It's telling that preventing these distribution companies from going bust is actually considered as a benefit to this.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well it worked fine before when there wasn't both as a private monopoly and a public monopoly before that. Our Lords & Masters were however obsessed with bringing us the 'benefits' of competition. Since however no utility company was deranged enough to consider spending billions to lay new pipes and cables all over the place we ended up with the current smoke and mirrors version.
It's telling that preventing these distribution companies from going bust is actually considered as a benefit to this.

We pay the ones who aren't bust and we pay for the ones who are

 

[platinumsage]

it makes you question why there should be an intermediary sector between the energy producer and the energy purchaser.

Not sure how you think energy ought to be distributed and supplied.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure how you think energy ought to be distributed and supplied.

that's ok

 

[NoXion]

Not sure how you think energy ought to be distributed and supplied.

Because there is no alternative to ordinary households being financially ruined by escalating bills while corporations reap ever-increasing profits?

 

[CH1]

Not sure how you think energy ought to be distributed and supplied.

How old are you?
For your information look at this Bank of England Report 1950.
Page 8 lists the gilt-edged government securities in issue relating to various electricity boards - and the newly established British Gas - bought out of various town gas works.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/annual-report/1950/boe-1950.pdf

All this continued to work just fine until Thatcher fucked it up.
I can remember in 1987 or so my cooker thermostat broke. I went into the gas showroom opposite Brixton Police Station - under the then Fridge nightclub. The show room organised a gas fitter to come and replace the thermostat. They then posted me a bill (for about £15) which I paid in the bank I think.

Nationalised industries were really so IN-efficient. You actually had the "Right to Repair" as of right then.
They didn't just talk about having a right to repair LAW to bamboozle the Green Party.

I don't agree with Corbyn too much - but he was right to say nationalising power is preferable to going to hell in a market-led handcart.

 

[platinumsage]

Because there is no alternative to ordinary households being financially ruined by escalating bills while corporations reap ever-increasing profits?

Even if it’s all state owned, there would still be a distribution sector. Pretty sure the Central Electricity Generating Board didn’t exclusively operate in the generation sector

 

[NoXion]

Even if it’s all state owned, there would still be a distribution sector. Pretty sure the Central Electricity Generating Board didn’t exclusively operate in the generation sector

It's the organisation of that distribution which is the issue. Why the fuck should such important work be divided up among a whole bunch of profit-turning middlemen? That's an objectively shit way of doing things, unless of course you're one of the parasites that makes bank under such an arrangement.

 

[platinumsage]

How old are you?
For your information look at this Bank of England Report 1950.
Page 8 lists the gilt-edged government securities in issue relating to various electricity boards - and the newly established British Gas - bought out of various town gas works.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/annual-report/1950/boe-1950.pdf

All this continued to work just fine until Thatcher fucked it up.
I can remember in 1987 or so my cooker thermostat broke. I went into the gas showroom opposite Brixton Police Station - under the then Fridge nightclub. The show room organised a gas fitter to come and replace the thermostat. They then posted me a bill (for about £15) which I paid in the bank I think.

Nationalised industries were really so IN-efficient. You actually had the "Right to Repair" as of right then.
They didn't just talk about having a right to repair LAW to bamboozle the Green Party.

I don't agree with Corbyn too much - but he was right to say nationalising power is preferable to going to hell in a market-led handcart.

I remember having our telephone line cancelled because my father’s income support wasn’t enough to pay for the obligatory perpetual rental of our shitty handset from the post office. They let us keep the handset anyway despite not keeping up payments for it, but it was illegal to plug it in without paying rent for it.

 

[platinumsage]

Of course Post Office Telephones and the old state-owned power companies had schemes to provide affordable phones and power to pensioners and those on benefits. Oh wait no they didn’t.

 

[NoXion]

I remember having our telephone line cancelled because my father’s income support wasn’t enough to pay for the obligatory perpetual rental of our shitty handset from the post office. They let us keep the handset anyway despite not keeping up payments for it, but it was illegal to plug it in without paying rent for it.

And this particular detail you've chosen to focus on is meaningfully different to how things are done now because... ? If I don't keep up my payments on my mobile bill, they will terminate my service. When that last happened to me, I got to keep the handset too.

Of course Post Office Telephones and the old state-owned power companies had schemes to provide affordable phones and power to pensioners and those on benefits. Oh wait no they didn’t.

I've never had help for my phone and power bills from any of the gaggle of private companies currently running the show, either. The point is, as long as private companies are involved, they have an inherent tendency to take the piss out of their customers because of the whole "making a profit" bullshit.

 

[platinumsage]

And this particular detail you've chosen to focus on is meaningfully different to how things are done now because... ? If I don't keep up my payments on my mobile bill, they will terminate my service. When that last happened to me, I got to keep the handset too.



I've never had help for my phone and power bills from any of the gaggle of private companies currently running the show, either. The point is, as long as private companies are involved, they have an inherent tendency to take the piss out of their customers because of the whole "making a profit" bullshit.

I'm not in favour of private companies doing everything, my point is that it's government intervention that makes the difference, whether in setting price levels or mandating help for those most in need. The difference between state and private ownership is pretty marginal to the consumer - it's how the government operates a nationalized company, or how it regulates the privates companies that actually makes the difference.

 

[CH1]

Of course Post Office Telephones and the old state-owned power companies had schemes to provide affordable phones and power to pensioners and those on benefits. Oh wait no they didn’t.

I had a party line with a British Airway air hostess who lived next door (in Effra Court, bottom of Brixton Hill). Very inconvenient. Took Thatcher several years to sort that out for me (and the hostess).

 

[NoXion]

I'm not in favour of private companies doing everything, my point is that it's government intervention that makes the difference, whether in setting price levels or mandating help for those most in need. The difference between state and private ownership is pretty marginal to the consumer - it's how the government operates a nationalized company, or how it regulates the privates companies that actually makes the difference.

When you're dealing with something as important as the nation's energy supply, control is important. You need to be able to issue orders, rather than just polite requests which one vainly hopes rapacious capitalists will do out of the kindness of their shrivelled hearts. It's the same general idea why the armed forces are always run by the state and not say, divided up among a whole bunch of various tightly-regulated mercenary groups.

 

[platinumsage]

When you're dealing with something as important as the nation's energy supply, control is important. You need to be able to issue orders, rather than just polite requests which one vainly hopes rapacious capitalists will do out of the kindness of their shrivelled hearts. It's the same general idea why the armed forces are always run by the state and not say, divided up among a whole bunch of various tightly-regulated mercenary groups.

Pretty sure the price cap is an order, sure it's from the Tories so it's not a very good one, but it's an order. Now imagine a state-owned power company under these Tories - you think that would lead to cheaper power for anyone?

Now imagine a state-owned power company under a decent Labour government, and compare that with a price-cap mechanism on private companies under that same government. Under which scenario would that government have the most political capital to reduce prices the furthest?

It's really all about the government and their power rather than the ownership type.

 

[Pickman's model]

a decent Labour government

like military intelligence, a contradiction in terms

 

[NoXion]

Pretty sure the price cap is an order, sure it's from the Tories so it's not a very good one, but it's an order. Now imagine a state-owned power company under these Tories - you think that would lead to cheaper power for anyone?

Now imagine a state-owned power company under a decent Labour government, and compare that with a price-cap mechanism on private companies under that same government. Under which scenario would that government have the most political capital to reduce prices the furthest?

It's really all about the government and their power rather than the ownership type.

The organisational dynamics involved in the profit motive vs the service motive still matter. That's why despite successive Tory governments, the NHS is still largely free at the point of use, and why Yanks still get chucked into massive debt despite the Affordable Care Act.