My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

[Chz]

No need to worry as it's ~5 times cheaper than electric.

That always bugs me. It's clearly far more efficient to use an electric kettle, but the way our power sources are taxed and whatnot still makes it cheaper to use a gas hob. Which is the sort of thing we're supposed to be doing away with to help save the planet and whatnot. It's likely only a matter of time before consumer level gas hobs and stoves are banned. I suspect gas central heating will stick around for a bit longer than that though.

 

[two sheds]

Is it more efficient when generating and distribution losses are accounted for?

 

[platinumsage]

Yeah you have to compare gas under the ground piped to homes to (wind in the air + gas in the ground + uranium in the ground etc) burnt/captured/processed via steam etc to the grid.

 

[Chz]

Is it more efficient when generating and distribution losses are accounted for?

Absolutely - generating and distribution have losses, but they're really quite low in comparison to how much your hob heats your kitchen instead of the water on it. Consider also how much of the grid is renewables now. It was a different story when the back end was all coal and gas anyhow.

Even on a crummy day for generation like today, there's zero coal being burned and under 50% is gas.

Edit: The real takeaway is that the wholesale price of electricity is lower than that of gas. The gov't is bound to move taxes around between them to encourage people to move to electric over time because it's the only way to meet their carbon output obligations.

 

[cupid_stunt]

OVO has filed a reply to my complaint with the ombudsman.

They have accepted a meter reading was taken in Oct, '19, and they are proposing to re-issue all SSE bills issued after they took over the retail consumers in Jan. '20, then all bills issued under the OVO name since Jan. 22, thus correcting my meter reading to what it actually is, credit my account with all over-payments, issue an apology and £100 compensation.

On the ombudsman site it's moved from 'Complaint escalated' stage and is now showing it's at 'Prepare Case' stage, two more stages after that - 'Investigate' and 'Decide'.

 

[Chz]

£100 seems chintzy given the hell they've put you through, but I suppose at this stage just having it sorted is blessing enough!

 

[CH1]

OVO has filed a reply to my complaint with the ombudsman.

They have accepted a meter reading was taken in Oct, '19, and they are proposing to re-issue all SSE bills issued after they took over the retail consumers in Jan. '20, then all bills issued under the OVO name since Jan. 22, thus correcting my meter reading to what it actually is, credit my account with all over-payments, issue an apology and £100 compensation.

On the ombudsman site it's moved from 'Complaint escalated' stage and is now showing it's at 'Prepare Case' stage, two more stages after that - 'Investigate' and 'Decide'.

sounds as though you are having some effect there.

Meanwhile if anybody's interested in tripling electricity bills still, here is my latest Shell bill - "based on actual readings"

As you will know all energy bills now have to be EIGHT pages by Law, so you get pissed off reading them.
Looking at "your useage compared by year" I have used 25% more kWh of electricity and 350% more gas kWh than May 2020 - so wondering if we have had a relatively mild 202o - or a cold May in 2021.

In any event having an electricity price of 29.632p per unit makes it impossible to economise on that front. Short of doing a Vincent Price and going up and down stairs with a flaming torch.

I could keep the Central heating OFF - but one get's conflicting messaging. I prefer to feel OK rather than miserable.

 

[CH1]

To give a perspective this is the last 10 months

September/October are on the old very reasonable contract rate.
Then the two government rates.
These amount are not what I actually paid - as I was on a monthly Direct Debit which they kept recalculating as per complaints on here.
My latest bill in the post above matches useage.

 

[Pickman's model]

I prefer to feel OK rather than miserable.

that choice is going to be removed from everyone as the year progresses

 

[CH1]

that choice is going to be removed from everyone as the year progresses

You mean paying on meter readings - or leaving the heating on?
As a pensioner my ultimate fear is being bundled off to a nursing home and having the house confiscated.
Which is a bit more catastrophic than leaving the heating on IMHO!

 

[Pickman's model]

You mean paying on meter readings - or leaving the heating on?
As a pensioner my ultimate fear is being bundled off to a nursing home and having the house confiscated.
Which is a bit more catastrophic than leaving the heating on IMHO!

i mean we're all going to feel miserable later this year

 

[gentlegreen]

How could I have forgotten the alternative way to heat water using electricity ?

 

[two sheds]

Coffee-Cutor :

I suppose the difficulty in making a safe(is) version is being able to enclose the electrodes - you'd need a material that doesn't conduct electricity but does conduct heat.

A couple of great comments on the youtube version.

Will check a couple more of his, ta - very instructive

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

How could I have forgotten the alternative way to heat water using electricity ?

I'd forgotten about those.
They go bang when you forget about them and the water has boiled away.
e2a: the one I had was just a kettle element you plopped in a cup.

 

[two sheds]

As one of the comments wisely noted:

"I think I can just save $3 by just putting a live wire and a neutral wire in my tea, thanks"

or the first comment:

"We used to make these when I was in the army in South Africa back in the '70s. It consisted of two razor blades (the old style double sided type), some cotton thread or fishing line, 9 match sticks and some lamp flex. You space the blades apart with the match sticks and line and connect the lamp flex. It would boil an average cup of water in a minute. The tea or coffee did however have a slight metallic taste, even though the blades were allegedly stainless steel. We knew what we were doing and it worked great for a couple of weeks, until the platoon thickhead came along with his metal fire bucket (military term for tin mug), plonked it down on the metal table and dropped our heater into it. When he switched it on there was a big flash bang and all the lights in B company went out. Torch light showed water all over the walls, ceiling and table, added to that the bucket was spot welded to the table. Unfortunately the problem was traced back to us, we had our immersion boiler confiscated and stood guard duty for two weeks straight."

 

[CH1]

gentlegreen two sheds this is an established industrial scale method in Norway, probably other places with Hydropower Electrode boilers and the energy transition - Modern Power Systems
this paragraph I found interesting
"We also believe that the renewables business currently faces a challenge that electrode boilers could help address. Since we entered the market for grid regulation in 2010 we have seen significant growth in renewables on the European power grid. However, when we travel around we notice that many wind turbines are idle, even in windy conditions. The reason for this is mainly old fashioned tax structures that discourage the use of electricity as a heat source or high grid tariffs even when the grid is not busy. For such reasons many GWh of renewable power is wasted every day since it is never produced. So we direct our challenge at politicians to work as hard at establishing a suitable framework for using renewable energy as they did to get renewable generating technology installed."

 

[two sheds]

I thought this was interesting, a couple of years old now but:

How AI and machine learning can support the renewable energy transition

How artificial intellgience (AI) and machine learning can help renewable energy become more reliable and achieve carbon neutrality by 2050.

techmonitor.ai

Charging car and other batteries overnight will be a good use for renewable power.

 

[CH1]

I thought this was interesting, a couple of years old now but:

How AI and machine learning can support the renewable energy transition

How artificial intellgience (AI) and machine learning can help renewable energy become more reliable and achieve carbon neutrality by 2050.

techmonitor.ai

Charging car and other batteries overnight will be a good use for renewable power.

Remember storage heaters - designed to use Nuclear Power off-peak?
I had one in my one bedroom fllat on Brixton Hill in the late 70s/early 80s.
The night electricity tariff was de minimis at that time.
I wonder what it is now - post Ukraine energy shock?

 

[gentlegreen]

I'd forgotten about those.
They go bang when you forget about them and the water has boiled away.
e2a: the one I had was just a kettle element you plopped in a cup.

I bought a 2.5KW immersion heater for another purpose and I did once use it when I added too much cold water to my bath ...
And they glow red hot if you take them out of the water !

 

[gentlegreen]

Remember storage heaters - designed to use Nuclear Power off-peak?

It would have been coal power.
Nuclear is absolutely baseload and we don't have that much of it - but coal-based plants are going to come second in terms of non-restartability ...

 

[CH1]

It would have been coal power.
Nuclear is absolutely baseload and we don't have that much of it - but coal-based plants are going to come second in terms of non-restartability ...

What? In the 1970s we were overflowing with Magnox reactors - and "White Meters" for storage heaters - which were actually advertised on ITV (Channel 4 & Sky didn't exist BTW)

Magnox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[gentlegreen]

What? In the 1970s we were overflowing with Magnox reactors - and "White Meters" for storage heaters - which were actually advertised on ITV (Channel 4 & Sky didn't exist BTW)

Magnox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

OK I suppose the push for storage heaters would have been in anticipation of nuclear getting a steadily larger share ...

A brief history of British Electricity Generation - MyGridGB

Britain's free and independant website tracking where electricity comes from and how rapidly it is decarbonising. Sharing easy to read blogs, simple electricity statistics and simulations of a decarbonised grid.

www.mygridgb.co.uk

 

[CH1]

OK I suppose the push for storage heaters would have been in anticipation of nuclear getting a steadily larger share ...

View attachment 325961

A brief history of British Electricity Generation - MyGridGB

Britain's free and independant website tracking where electricity comes from and how rapidly it is decarbonising. Sharing easy to read blogs, simple electricity statistics and simulations of a decarbonised grid.

www.mygridgb.co.uk

What you want to look at actually is a chart showing on-peak and off-peak useage of electricity in England from about 1970 to 1990. And then match this to charts showing nuclear generation by time of day and coal generation by time of day over the corresponding period.

The nuclear base load was important - and they wouldn't have been encouraging people to fit storage heaters if they didn't want to increase the use of off-peak electricity. Heaters were installed by the electricity board (then an arm of the state) who also had to fit a special meter which flipped over to off-peak at midnight and back to on-peak at 7 am (the so-called "Economy Seven" tariff)

I can vouch for the physical reality of the Sizewell nuclear power station in Suffolk. My Dad took me fishing off there in his little fishing boat. The Sole we caught were enormous and tasty - not because radioactive, but the reactor cooling water was discharged into the sea - thus creating a Mediterranean microclimate.
Likewise I remember going to see the Dungeness power station in Kent as a kid. Seems you can still go on the miniature railway Dungeness Railway Station - RH&DR - Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway
Both Dungerness A and Dungerness B are no longer operational (since 2006 and 2021 respectively).

 

[cybershot]

So Mr MSE is 'suggesting' if you can find a fix between 35%-40% more than the current price cap it 'may' be worth it if you want peace of mind.

I can currently get a deal with e.on that is an existing customer deal that is bang on 30% more.

I crunched the numbers for this deal taking into account I would be paying 30% more for my energy 6 months early, and then calculated 6 months at my current DD and 6 months at 45% more (taking into account a likely rise in January again too) and numbers were pretty much exactly the same over 12 months. (the fixed rate on offer vs sticking at price cap) I think I'll take the risk and stay at the current price cap rather than paying 30% more than I need too, right now.

Any other thoughts on this?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/-are-there-any-cheap--fixed-energy-deals-currently-worth-it--/

 

[Cat Fan]

So Mr MSE is 'suggesting' if you can find a fix between 35%-40% more than the current price cap it 'may' be worth it if you want peace of mind.

I can currently get a deal with e.on that is an existing customer deal that is bang on 30% more.

I crunched the numbers for this deal taking into account I would be paying 30% more for my energy 6 months early, and then calculated 6 months at my current DD and 6 months at 45% more (taking into account a likely rise in January again too) and numbers were pretty much exactly the same over 12 months. (the fixed rate on offer vs sticking at price cap) I think I'll take the risk and stay at the current price cap rather than paying 30% more than I need too, right now.

Any other thoughts on this?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/-are-there-any-cheap--fixed-energy-deals-currently-worth-it--/

The risk with paying more now is the off chance that the government intervenes to stop the cap going up.

 

[existentialist]

Remember storage heaters - designed to use Nuclear Power off-peak?
I had one in my one bedroom fllat on Brixton Hill in the late 70s/early 80s.
The night electricity tariff was de minimis at that time.
I wonder what it is now - post Ukraine energy shock?

Mine (Bulb) are:

Day unit rate 31.25p per kWh
Night unit rate 20.37p per kWh

 

[not-bono-ever]

Got a email bill from octopus at tge end of last month. They have already outsourced their chasing to a debt collection outfit in redditch judging by their call this morning. Not an actual escalation to legal stuff but a gentle reminder. The cunts

 

[donkyboy]

My current EDF tariff ends in July. The fixed rate seems to have gone down from £70 the last time I checked a few months back. But £67 is still a lot of money if I go for the fixed rate.

 

[cupid_stunt]

OVO has filed a reply to my complaint with the ombudsman.

They have accepted a meter reading was taken in Oct, '19, and they are proposing to re-issue all SSE bills issued after they took over the retail consumers in Jan. '20, then all bills issued under the OVO name since Jan. 22, thus correcting my meter reading to what it actually is, credit my account with all over-payments, issue an apology and £100 compensation.

On the ombudsman site it's moved from 'Complaint escalated' stage and is now showing it's at 'Prepare Case' stage, two more stages after that - 'Investigate' and 'Decide'.

I got an e-mail from the ombudsman this morning, inviting me to comment on OVO's reply by Sat 11th May, I've made two points.

1- Of course the bills need to be re-issued, but OVO doesn't give any time frame for doing that, despite the fact that it should have been done weeks ago, and hasn't even been done that at this stage, which is causing me further stress. I assume it would be reasonable that this should now be done in a maximum of 2 additional working days.

2 - As you are aware I suggested compensation at £150 in view of the amount of time I've spent on this and the stress it has caused me, so I don't think their offer of just £100 is reasonable. As you are also aware they have continued causing me further problems and stress since I filed my complaint, including breaking pervious promises about not putting up my DD and still not re-issuing bills, so I would ask you to consider a reasonable amount now should be £200.

Well, if you don't ask, you don't get.

 

[WouldBe]

£100 seems to be standard. That's all I've been offered when I'm owed £10k.