My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

[MickiQ]

I bet you’d love to pay for your internet by the megabyte, perhaps you should campaign for an end to inclusive phone minutes too. Maybe go the whole hog and lobby to charge people for actually calling the fire brigade rather than slap that unfair levy on everyone’s council tax bill?

There’s plenty of documentation out there on the transmission grid and distribution network operator costs and how these relate to the standing charges in different regions.

The FB is a public service that is publicly funded by taxation in order to provide a service to the public what has it got to do with British Gas which is a commercial corporation that (no matter how people may kid themselves) exists to generate profit for its shareholders so any comparison between them is just whataboutery.
Internet and mobile phone charges are an interesting discussion but we will return to that later.
Firstly let us take a look at standing charges using the one example where I have all the data ie myself. I am a customer of British Gas whose standing charges (daily) are 44.75p for Electric and 27.22p for Gas so they respectively charge me £13.43 a month and £8.12 a month standing charge. I pay £115 a month for electric minus the standing charge means I buy (at 27.63p kwh) 367kwh of electric pm. For gas I pay £95 minus the standing charge gives me (at 7.28p kwh) 1193 kwh of gas.
Averaging the standing charge across the amount of actual energy brings the actual cost to 31.29p kwh electric and 7.96p for Gas.
That's me so let's take a look at someone who uses half the energy I do, they would pay £50.70 for their actual electric and £43.39 for their actual gas BUT they're paying the same standing charge so their final bill will come to £64.13 electric and £51.51 gas. They're using 50% of the energy I do but paying 55% of the cost at an averaged cost of 34.95p and 8.64p. If they were buying their energy at the same actual rate as me they would pay £57.26 and £47.44.
And this gets worse the less energy someone uses since the standing charge gets averaged over fewer units and the more expensive per unit it gets. The more energy someone uses then the cheaper it gets per unit.
Standing charges are fundamentally unfair, OK I know this is not a fashionable idea these days but it doesn't strike me as great business sense either. Simply lumping the cost of maintaining the infrastructure in with the general price and
selecting a break even price point at which units are charged (Hell use me I'm probably about the average anyway) is a far better idea.
Saying you can find documentation as to how the standing charges is spent is meaningless so what? it doesn't justify it. I'm sure my daughter's driving instructor would give me a breakdown of how much is spent on fuel, insurance etc if I asked him.
However the entire billing process consists of "Dad Transfer me £31 please". Supermarkets don't break down the bill and charge separately for infrastructure, Rail companies don't, Airlines don't so why do utility companies?
Which brings us to internet and mobile phone companies. Vodaphone charge me £9 a month for unlimited texts, unlimited calls and 1Gb of data, Virgin Media charge me £44 per month for all I can use internet (and believe me I can burn through terabytes) so I am effectively in both cases paying only for infrastructure but getting services for free (and yet both companies seem to be making a profit). I think this is a great business model.
Electric and Gas Standing Charges buy NOTHING. you have people sat there paying £20+ a month to sit in the fucking dark and cold afraid to turn the light or heating on because it will mean they can't eat if they do. If we have to have standing charges why isn't there a certain amount of energy included with folks being charged extra only if they go over it?

 

[two sheds]

I bet you’d love to pay for your internet by the megabyte, perhaps you should campaign for an end to inclusive phone minutes too. Maybe go the whole hog and lobby to charge people for actually calling the fire brigade rather than slap that unfair levy on everyone’s council tax bill?

There’s plenty of documentation out there on the transmission grid and distribution network operator costs and how these relate to the standing charges in different regions.

were you in favour of the poll tax?

 

[Storm Fox]

The Standing Charge by the Intermediary Admin Companies is complete bullshit.

From Who pays for the grid? - Regen

Paying for the grid – network charging for a flexible future​

To put this into some sort of context, the national grid electricity transmission network costs account for around 4 per cent of a customer’s bill. The Transmission Network Use of Service (TNUoS) charge is expected to cost £2.7 billion per annum in 2016/17, rising to just over £3.7 billion by 2020/21[1]. Added to that is another billion[2] for balancing services (BSUoS) which have to be purchased to keep the grid voltage and frequency in line and to cover the cost of electricity transmission losses, which are running at just under 2 per cent across the GB network.

The distribution network currently costs circa £6 billion[3] per year to operate and maintain and accounts for around 16 per cent of a customer’s bill. The main Distribution Use of Service (DUoS) charge is levied based on demand usage, using a banded tariff with a significantly higher tariff for evening peak usage during the “Red Band” and winter evening “Super Red Band” periods.

The approach for UK network charging has been developed over a number of decades and, as you might expect, there are now a large number of different mechanisms and an alphabet soup of acronyms.

So unless you are paying for than £40 a day in electricity you are being ripped off and it's a regressive tax.

 

[not a trot]

Thank fuck we haven't hit winter yet
And we're a pensioner household.

 

[kittyP]

Sorry I am spamming a thread without contributing, this stuff makes me incredibly anxious and while I want to read this thread I don't as I can't iyswim?
Even the title makes me shake.

But I'm in a binde and would appreciate any help or even sympathy

Advice re landlord/[property manager and heating.

The property manager keeps changing the thermostat so that the heating in the house is on 19 - 21 degrees 24/7 :eek: :mad: He is insisting that this is for the tenants comfort and to stop mould and damp. This is an old draughty damp Victorian house with a long history of leaks, damp and things...

www.urban75.net

 

[cesare]

Sorry I am spamming a thread without contributing, this stuff makes me incredibly anxious and while I want to read this thread I don't as I can't iyswim?
Even the title makes me shake.

But I'm in a binde and would appreciate any help or even sympathy

Advice re landlord/[property manager and heating.

The property manager keeps changing the thermostat so that the heating in the house is on 19 - 21 degrees 24/7 :eek: :mad: He is insisting that this is for the tenants comfort and to stop mould and damp. This is an old draughty damp Victorian house with a long history of leaks, damp and things...

www.urban75.net

I did a reply on your thread but (((((((kitty)))))) X

 

[cupid_stunt]

My monthly billing period ended yesterday, 9 days at the old rates & 21 days at the new rates, the total combined electric & gas with VAT comes to just under £52, a saving of about £23 on my average for the July & August bills, before my energy saving measures started to come into being during Sept.

With a credit of £67, £1 from me plus the £66 grant, my credit balance has increased from £570 to almost £585.

I am well chuffed with that.

The latest billing period ended yesterday, electric use down from 85.36kWh to just 60.15kWh, so 25.21kWh less, despite there being an extra day and saving £6.55 inc. VAT at the new higher rates, that's mainly down to the new fridge-freezer being in use for the whole period, and the fact I turned it down from 3 to 2 as everything was way too cold in the fridge. So I am using just under 2kWh per day, when I had been using 5kWh per day back in the summer.

I started using the CH in the last half of this period, but only in the mornings so far, and set to a comfortable 17c rather than the 18c I used to aim at, so total gas use inc. VAT has gone up from £2.46 to £15.97, which isn't bad considering I was spending around £12pm just on hot water in the summer, with the old boiler.

So, the total bill is £59,25, with a £67 credit (£66 being the grant), my credit balance goes up by another £7.75, which would have taken it to over £592 if I hadn't come to the conclusion there's no way I am going to be needing that to get me to the end of March, so I took a £400 refund.

For the next 4 months I'll not even be paying my usual £1pm, just the monthly grant of £67 x 4, so £268 plus £192 in credit, leaves me with £115pm to cover the bills, not 100% convinced I'll get away with that little as winter proper hits, but it would be nice if I do.

Once the grant payments end in March, I'll adjust my DD to the correct amount, which I guess should be £90pm at current rates, somewhat better than the £191 OVO suggested at peak madness, although with the price guarantee going up by 20% from 1st April, it's be about £110, not bad considering it was around £67 back at the end of 2021, before all this madness kicked-off.

 

[gentlegreen]

Are you at home during the day ?
My PC uses 2kwh by itself - but it's taking the chill off the room - perhaps I should move it back to under the desk where its 120 watts can do more good - .

 

[two sheds]

Are you at home during the day ?
My PC uses 2kwh by itself - but it's taking the chill off the room - perhaps I should move it back to under the desk where its 120 watts can do more good - .

are you using it as a server, or any other reason it's on all day?

 

[gentlegreen]

are you using it as a server, or any other reason it's on all day?

I have no life
If I were away from the keyboard for any amount of time it would drop down to 70 watts.
I suppose I could change the power supply settings but it's 11 years old and needs all the help it can get.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Are you at home during the day ?
My PC uses 2kwh by itself - but it's taking the chill off the room - perhaps I should move it back to under the desk where its 120 watts can do more good - .

Mostly yes, but my laptop only uses about 50 watts an hour when in use.

 

[two sheds]

I have no life
If I were away from the keyboard for any amount of time it would drop down to 70 watts.
I suppose I could change the power supply settings but it's 11 years old and needs all the help it can get.

as I said I use the Power Off button on the keyboard to drop consumption down to zero when I'm away from it. I've also started listening to old radio 4 plays on my phone with a small amp which also gives me the benefit of actually doing stuff around the house so I'm not tied to the puter.

Different topic but this has reminded me to get a new hot water bottle - both of mine must be a good 15-20 years old

‘This is serious’: Expert issues warning over hot water bottles as winter bites

Cold snap has sent temperatures plummetting across the UK, with a yellow warning issued by the Met Office

www.independent.co.uk

 

[StoneRoad]

Third report from OFGEM - largely being critical of how badly most suppliers are treating vulnerable customers.
No surprise there, but I feel OFGEM needs to do something to control the suppliers' behaviour.

Cost of living: Energy suppliers failing struggling customers - Ofgem

Failings included setting debt repayments so high that customers could not top-up their pre-payment meters.

www.bbc.co.uk

So far, the weather has been helpful towards reducing excessive use ...

Hopefully, EDF will be getting the Nuclear Stations up and running some time in the near future.

{at least we're not having our generating & distribution system physically attacked}

 

[elbows]

Hopefully, EDF will be getting the Nuclear Stations up and running some time in the near future.

We have only got a couple offline at the moment, and their capacity is too small to make much of a difference to the price. Most of what we've lost has been due to permanent end of life closures. And the new nuclear wont be ready for years.

Its France where a huge quantity of nuclear is down. And that does have some knock on consequences for other countries. Including the UK where we are often exporting 3GW of electricity to France instead of getting imports from them.

I suppose smaller fluctuations in available supply vs demand do affect short term prices at moments in time, as does the general perception of supplies being tight. But articles about the situation dont usually imply that there are any short to medium term fixes, they either look to the longer term or point out that the price of gas is the main driver of the high electricity prices. In terms of shorter term fluctuations in price, its certainly true that the seasons, their weather and what that does to energy demand has some impact. But with the way things are with gas supplies to europe, its likely that when more favourable seasons come around market attention will already be turning towards the expectation of the next winter being even more challenging than the currently approaching one.

 

[cupid_stunt]

OFGEM has just announced the price cap from January for the 'average household' at an eye watering £4,279.

The only thing we can be grateful for during Truss's short term as PM, is the introduction of the government's price guarantee of £2,500, although that goes up to £3000 from April, for another year, which is another 20% increase.

However, there's been no mention of the £400 grant for every household next winter, so if that doesn't happen, in real terms it's an increase of about 43%. (i.e. £2,500 - £400 = £2,100 + 43% = £3003)

 

[gentlegreen]

So 38.6p or 46p per kwh ?

 

[cupid_stunt]

So 38.6p or 46p per kwh ?

We will have to wait for the details of the new government's price guarantee from April, to know how it's split between electric & gas, it will probably be a larger increase for gas than electric.

My electric is now 75% more than in Jan., whereas gas is 165% more.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'd originally pencilled-in 80p for next April for electricity !

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'd originally pencilled-in 80p for next April for electricity !

Probably because the price cap forecast for April was a fair bit over £6,000, but that has dropped to £3,702, with the price guarantee taking it down to £3,000.



And, here's their forecasts broken down, but note they are based on OFGEM's price cap, the price guarantee will bring them somewhat.

Thought Leadership: Blogs, Insight, Podcasts | Cornwall Insight

Industry-leading thought leadership, including insight papers, blogs, podcasts, and videos exclusive to Cornwall Insight customers

www.cornwall-insight.com

 

[gentlegreen]

That's still going to hurt though
I suppose for normal people who heat their homes and bathe it will mean roughly the same as they've been paying through the winter ... until next winter ...

 

[StoneRoad]

Quite cold & damp outside this morning, so shower was short & down a notch ...
Unfortunately, had to use the washer and dryer a couple of days ago on a quite humid day which hit the leccy bill way more than I wanted.
So I'm tying to avoid the temptation of the fan-heater.

 

[gentlegreen]

These are my estimates for my level of consumption ...

 

[MickiQ]

OFGEM has just announced the price cap from January for the 'average household' at an eye watering £4,279.

The only thing we can be grateful for during Truss's short term as PM, is the introduction of the government's price guarantee of £2,500, although that goes up to £3000 from April, for another year, which is another 20% increase.

However, there's been no mention of the £400 grant for every household next winter, so if that doesn't happen, in real terms it's an increase of about 43%. (i.e. £2,500 - £400 = £2,100 + 43% = £3003)

I think the £400 bung is going to be a one off, there may very well be 'targeted' help for the most needy but I doubt there will be another general handout

 

[kabbes]

I’ve just realised that my energy company is exempt from the price cap (one of the companies exempt because they genuinely buy directly from renewable providers rather than greenwashing with carbon credits). I’m not sure that the additional cost is particularly bearable — it’s now creeping up towards 50p per kWh.

I know the rest will all be priced the same at the moment but does anybody have any recommendations for electricity companies?

So: two months after switching from Green Energy to Octopus, I can confirm that it seems to be about £100 a month cheaper for us. Not having the price cap is a brave business model for Good Energy.

 

[sojourner]

I am so fucking sick and tired already of looking at my smart meter and being caught up in anxiety, just for doing everyday fucking stuff like putting a bastard wash on, or having the heating on FOR HALF AN HOUR.

 

[BigMoaner]

sainsburys cashign in on the world cup. the cunts.

 

[NoXion]

I am so fucking sick and tired already of looking at my smart meter and being caught up in anxiety, just for doing everyday fucking stuff like putting a bastard wash on, or having the heating on FOR HALF AN HOUR.

That's another one of the reasons I refuse to have a smart meter fitted, or do any measuring of my electricity consumption beyond taking note of what I'm paying each month. I thoroughly despise the way that the responsibility for this energy affordability crisis is being passed on to individuals and families. I'll be damned if I let the greedy cunts get me into the habit of worrying about that shit on their behalf.

 

[elbows]

With or without the current crisis, the prices and the greed, the chances are we'll all end up thinking about our energy consumption as a matter of routine in the decades ahead. The climate change and energy transition agenda doesnt get to where it needs to be without action on the demand side, and the psychology of consumption is a part of that, the opposite of pipedreams about abundance and unmetered use.

The key is not to deny this, its to find ways to get there that are fair, give people a decent safety net, give us the best chance of having sufficient supplies, and that people can come to terms with without a poor effect on anxiety and other mental and physical health issues.

 

[Ranbay]

So we have around 28m homes in the Uk, average standing charge is £250 a year for gas and leccy ……

So how much do they make before even 1kwh is sold …..

 

[gentlegreen]

I just had this crazy mailshot from Bristol water ...

WaterShare+

WaterShare+ means everyone will benefit to the value of £13. This can be taken either as money off your bill or as shares in our parent company, Pennon Group Plc.

www.bristolwater.co.uk