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Muslims and the European media

There is something on radio 4 this morning about muslims from denmark
showing far worse cartoons than the ones actually printed to people in the middle east .There is a special on it at lunchtime .
 
Serguei said:
I cannot remember anybody else but Muslims setting fire recently to embassies on the other side of the Planet just because of some cartoons...
This could probably could happen in Middle Ages, but not recently.
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Bloody Sunday? Thank fuck you've been banned.
 
dylanredefined said:
There is something on radio 4 this morning about muslims from denmark
showing far worse cartoons than the ones actually printed to people in the middle east .There is a special on it at lunchtime .
Click to expand...
Dude! This shit is old, old news on the web. Your radio is crap. Wake the fuck up!
 
mears said:
Exactly, hard to counter that one. Besides, what does that have to do with some cartoons?
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Hmmm, I credited you with some intelligence, seems I might have been wrong. Do you honestly think that the current chaos is happening "just because of some cartoons"?
 
Magneze said:
Hmmm, I credited you with some intelligence, seems I might have been wrong. Do you honestly think that the current chaos is happening "just because of some cartoons"?
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An electric toaster is more intelligent than mears. C'est vrai. :D
 
Magneze said:
Hmmm, I credited you with some intelligence, seems I might have been wrong. Do you honestly think that the current chaos is happening "just because of some cartoons"?
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I interpreted your post as blameing the west, specifically the US for the current uproar over the cartoons.
 
mears said:
Only sarcasm offered howeve.

Seems no one wants to touch the question
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All Amerikkka all the time - eh, mears?

The speaking clock has nothing on you!

At the third stroke, the time sponsored by Accurist will be (in a mechanical voice) "All America all the time". :D
 
mears said:
...What about jack Starw's comments that the decision of some newspapers to reprint the cartoons were "insensitive, disrespectful and wrong”? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2024352,00.html
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Clue: check out a breakdown of the population in his constituency, Blackburn.

Straw is very, very heavily reliant upon the asian muslim vote and asian male patriarchs delivering votes en masse for their extended family clan, which amount to vote rigging and the disenfranchisement, particularly of women who are expected to do and vote as their menfolk tell them.

I found his comments obscene, a blatant politically motivated pandering to backwards cultural traditions imported from the asian subcontinent. I do wish people like Straw wouldn't pander to these self-styled 'community leaders' whose activities and attitudes seem to be transported directly from some third world village. But Straw has boxed himself into a corner, because the preferential treatment that the socially and financially deprived white working class communities feel the asian community has received, have created a lot of resentment among the white community against the asian community, which they feel have had preferential treatment in relation to housing, monies spent on upgrading properties and improving areas generally, and also grant monies awarded to asian community groups and projects etc., Straw's alienation of the white working class traditional labour vote, through his trying to curry favour of the asian population, means he is now over-reliant on the asian muslim vote in his constituency.

Straw's comments on the publication of the cartoons should be taken in the context of his constituency and whose votes he needs. If he alienates the muslims, the white working class aren't going to automatically swing back to Labour, on those large grim white majority council estates there's a prevailing attitude of 'I'm voting for anyone but Labour', the candidate who has the best chance of defeating Jack Straw, be that Lib Dem, Conservative or even the BNP (I was shocked by the numbers of BNP posters proudly displayed in windows when I was there).
 
In the wider context of his position as Foreign Secretary, I thought his comments were extremely ill-advised verging on incompetent because he lacked the foresight understand how his comments might be perceived and interpreted.

Again, the pandering to extremist muslim sensibilities irritates the hell out of me and I think it actually serves to inflame the situation further, because it kind of condones and even legitimises the protests.

I mean, how many of those misguided idiots would have thought: "Yeah, even Jack Straw said it was 'irresponsible, disrespectful and wrong', so we have a right to be aggrieved, if he thought it was wrong and he's not even a muslim, heck we're muslims, if he's annoyed about what happened, we should be really, really p!$$sed off about it, innit".

And the comments praising the British press for not publishing them... well, that just rules out the possibility of any British publication publishing them in the future, even as an illustration as part of a calm, sensible, reasonable and rational debate about the issue. I mean, Jack Straw says it's wrong, innit, so when the BBC shows a fleeting a glance, that means we ought to go and protest about it... and if anyone has the temerity to stand up for freedom of speech, well, they deserve to be protested against and threatened, like what's happening in Denmark, and elsewhere in Europe, the Middle East, Asia-Pacific... I mean if Jack Straw says it's wrong, and he's a respectable politician, a member of the government, he's telling us our protests are legitimate, that he agrees with us that we've got a right to be angry about it, yeah?

I just think what he's done has set a really dangerous precedent for 'legitimising' such unreasonable and extremist views.

I think he should have actually spoken out more in favour of the fact that we live in a democracy (flawed though it is), we don't live by mob rule and our beliefs and attitudes - especially regarding freedom of speech and the press - certainly should be upheld.
 
Magneze said:
I think attacks on embassies happen more than you think and by a wide variety of groups.

I also believe that this isn't "just because of some cartoons".
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No it isn't, actually.
It was like pouring oil on a smoldering fire that is composed of a variety of highly inflammable components.

salaam.
 
foggypane said:
All true RY.

The danger, in UK at least, from this nasty little story is that our far right scumbags (I'm not lumping your version of far right in with them) gain from it.

I've thought long and hard about it, and I can't see any way of disagreeing with the likes of the BNP when they use our language of free speech as the starting point for their crap. When they go beyond that, into demonisation of Muslims/Arabs, then I have to call a halt to my agreement.
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.....

Griffin’s BNP may hate Islamic fundamentalists now. But this has not always been the case. After his faction took control of the NF, they began to make some strange alliances. They met with representatives of Colonel Gaddafi’s regime through the Libyan People’s Bureau in London, and expressed support for Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini.

Rank and File members of the NF were not too pleased when Griffin, in 1985, praised the black separatist Louis Farrakhan: “White nationalists everywhere wish (Farrakhan) well, for we share a common struggle for the same ends: Racial Separation and Racial Freedom”.

During this period, Griffin and other NF leaders took an all-expenses paid trip to Libya, as guests of the Gaddafi regime to obtain funding.

National Front News wrote at the time: “Common interest must be turned into practical cooperation. Those involved must work to nail the media lies which are used by our enemies to try and divide us and make us afraid to be seen standing side by side with Third Way nations such as Libya and Iran”. Ironic that Griffin once allied himself so closely with Muslim countries that he now condemns as terrorist states. But political gymnastics have been constant throughout Griffin’s life. His bizarre ideologies have changed like the wind.
http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/uncovered/pg03.htm
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The Nation of Islam is a US political movement.
It has a mixture of Bible quotes, lines taken out of Al Qur'an and Science Fiction rubbish as its "teachings" and has as such nothing to see with Islam at all.
It is something typical US, just like all the so called "Christian" sects that pop up like mushrooms in the USA.

salaam.
 
Aldebaran said:
The Nation of Islam is a US political movement.
It has a mixture of Bible quotes, lines taken out of Al Qur'an and Science Fiction rubbish as its "teachings" and has as such nothing to see with Islam at all.
It is something typical US, just like all the so called "Christian" sects that pop up like mushrooms in the USA.

salaam.
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Exactly and what a bunch of racist tosspots the NOI are too. Elijah Muhammed was a total fruitcake. Malcolm X obviously realised this (a little to late) in the early 60's when he split from the movement.
 
Aldebaran said:
The Nation of Islam is a US political movement.
It has a mixture of Bible quotes, lines taken out of Al Qur'an and Science Fiction rubbish as its "teachings" and has as such nothing to see with Islam at all.
It is something typical US, just like all the so called "Christian" sects that pop up like mushrooms in the USA.

salaam.
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sounds like another form of scientology :rolleyes:
 
tangentlama said:
sounds like another form of scientology :rolleyes:
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No, has nothing to see with that. Scientology or ID is clearly Christian inspired.
NOI is racial inspired. I visited once a US board where they had their own forum. I couldn't believe my eyes. What they make up of both the Bible and Al Qur'an, writing very remarkable own invented "exegeses" to underscore their science fiction... I tried to talk some common sense into them coming from Islamic point of view, I gave them the correct exegeses and interpretations of what they "quoted" of Quranic texts and even corrected their interpretations of their Bible quoting, but to no avail. They are just as brainwashed as members of the KKK.

salaam.
 
Aldebaran said:
No, has nothing to see with that. Scientology or ID is clearly Christian inspired.
NOI is racial inspired. I visited once a US board where they had their own forum. I couldn't believe my eyes. What they make up of both the Bible and Al Qur'an, writing very remarkable own invented "exegeses" to underscore their science fiction... I tried to talk some common sense into them coming from Islamic point of view, I gave them the correct exegeses and interpretations of what they "quoted" of Quranic texts and even corrected their interpretations of their Bible quoting, but to no avail. They are just as brainwashed as members of the KKK.

salaam.
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I woudn't have said Scientology is "Christian inspired", it came - quite literally - from the pages of a really bad science fiction novel by L. Ron Hubbard.
 
From what I read about scientology and ID they are practically the same and clearly inspired by litteral Bible interpretation.
I didn't read the "novel" though :)

salaam.
 
Aldebaran said:
From what I read about scientology and ID they are practically the same and clearly inspired by litteral Bible interpretation.
I didn't read the "novel" though :)

salaam.
Click to expand...

Er, no...ID is a dog's dinner put forward by scientists who are either Christians themselves or have been paid to conduct 'research' by Christian groups. ID is a reaction to "Darwinism" (qv Scopes Monkey Trial), which has been seen by many fundamentalist Christians as an affront to His law.

Scientology on the other hand is a mish mash of cod psychology and crackpot science.

Here's something from Wikipedia. I didn't want to go to the Scientology website for obvious reasons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
 
How it happened.

It might first be helpful to point out that Muslims and non-Muslims alike have made images of the prophet for centuries. Some of these have been reverential, some not, but it has generally not caused any problems.

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/

Years ago in Europe, people fought long wars and won the right to criticise and even ridicule religions. Eventually they freed their state from torturers and police who oppressed people on the pretext that they were “offended”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead

The people exercised their new right frequently.

http://www.hedning.no/humor/cartoons/Bilder%20store.html - cartoons mocking jesus and chr

A man was killed for making a film about Muhammad. Had the terrorists returned? Were people afraid? Were people killing again to suppress religious freedom? A newspaper decided to test this. They published some cartoons.

http://forum.newspaperindex.com/viewtopic.php?t=5 – pictures actually published by Jyllands-Posten

They were reprinted in the Islamic world. People weren't happy to be sure, but it caused no real fuss, no great outrage. Everything was fine.

http://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/ - pictures in egyption newspaper 3 month earlier
http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/02/boycott-egypt.html - ditto
http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail.aspx?artikelid=DMF09022006_010
http://freedomforegyptians.blogspot.com/2006/02/cartoons-were-published-five-months.html Cartoons were Published Five Months ago in Egypt

Several months later, a totalitarian state in the middle east sponsors some Danish extremists to travel the world with a false set of pictures, spreading lies and racial hatred.

http://www.neandernews.com/?p=54n – Danish imams busted
http://ekstrabladet.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=329877 – links to the pictures the imams disseminated
http://bibelen.blogspot.com/2006/01/pictures-of-mohammed-in-weekendavisen.html - blog with links to all the pictures

Then embassies are raided, newspapers pontificate about a “crisis”. Many newspapers try to reprint the cartoons, so that the truth might be known. In Jordan and Yemen, the editors are thrown in jail by their governments. In Malaysia, they close the newspaper down. In France, a Middle Eastern owner fires his editor. The truth remains obscured, as governments try to whip up as much hatred and violence as they can.

Where will it end? Will the people find the truth about how they have been used? In Denmark and Belgium the media has now told the truth. Will the truth be told in the middle east, in the UK, France, the USA? In other countries? We shall see.

There is no real “crisis”, no real “outrage”. A few extremists have invented this for stirring up violence and racial hatred. In truth, there are few people in the middle east or elsewhere who are particularly excited, once they learn the truth. Will they learn what has happened?
 
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