Most firefighters think the SWP/ruc (Wespec') is a load of ole bollocks

[Pickman's model]

I thought that the turn downturn ended in 1992? Aren't we in an upturn? That is why everything is so fantastic and brilliant and amazing! (to quote Nineham)

if you believe that, you should see a (medical) intern.

 

[mk12]

WP member - I thought you were a Leninist?

 

[rednblack]

WP member - I thought you were a Leninist?

talking of wp members - cockney rebel empty your box

 

[Chuck Wilson]

I thought that the turn downturn ended in 1992? Aren't we in an upturn? That is why everything is so fantastic and brilliant and amazing! (to quote Nineham)

That's the political upturn dummy! The fantastic and brilliant and amazing syndrome may be due to halluciegenic drugs but I am glad to see that your organisation has taken a firm line on this.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

WP member - I thought you were a Leninist?

Please see post 230.

 

[butchersapron]

That's the political upturn dummy! The fantastic and brilliant and amazing syndrome may be due to halluciegenic drugs but I am glad to see that your organisation has taken a firm line on this.

Which as RMP3 has conclusively demonstrated is not linked to any other manifestations of class anger - and is entirely autonmous.

 

[levien]

The SWP doesn't see the present period as a general up turn in the class struggle. But the potential is there, frustration at whats been happening over the last twenty years or so has exploded in a into the massive anti-war movement and huge rejection of the Labour party by a layer of its supporters. Read the SW pamphlet on "building the party in the age of mass movements" for an idea of the SWP analysis. Or the conference motions on the swp website.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh right - all that stuff in 1992 about the dowturn now being finished and the upturn now getting into full swing was simply our imagination then?

 

[poster342002]

---------

 

[butchersapron]

" Or the conference motions on the swp website."

I can't find these - can you help?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Which as RMP3 has conclusively demonstrated is not linked to any other manifestations of class anger - and is entirely autonmous.

Where is Comrade RMP3 these days?

 

[butchersapron]

Sulking. He occassionly posts the word 'downturn!" then leaves.

 

[levien]

There in "other resources" in resources section. Used to be on top of front page but been updated now since conference was a while ago.

 

[flimsier]

I can't find the conference motions either. I don't think they are there.

edit: after levien's post.

I thought he meant up-and-coming motions. I wanted to see the ones that were dissenting.

 

[butchersapron]

There in "other resources" in resources section. Used to be on top of front page but been updated now since conference was a while ago.

Nope, not there. There are plenty of ver batim reports in WW though - and guess what, quite a few that specifically talk about what the SWP's perspective should be in this period of 'upturn'.

 

[poster342002]

The SWP doesn't see the present period as a general up turn in the class struggle. But the potential is there, frustration at whats been happening over the last twenty years or so has exploded in a into the massive anti-war movement and huge rejection of the Labour party by a layer of its supporters. Read the SW pamphlet on "building the party in the age of mass movements" for an idea of the SWP analysis. Or the conference motions on the swp website.

How many times have we heard crap like that before over the years?

 

[rednblack]

How many times have we heard crap like that before over the years?

22.57

 

[cockneyrebel]

RnB, my inbox now has some room and is waiting for you to fill it.....

 

[rednblack]

RnB, my inbox now has some room and is waiting for you to fill it.....

let's keep it quite though eh? don't want to spoil my rep

 

[LLETSA]

The need for a revolutionary party seems entirely relevant to me today...you did not actually give any particular reasons for thinking Leninism is 'dead'.

Oh yes I did! Go back and read the posts.

 

[LLETSA]

"Well what about post-1905 Russia"

This atititude it itself a part of the problem. What about the UK in 2005?

I wonder if the words different country, different century mean anything to 'em.

Not to mention entirely different kind of bleedin' society.

 

[LLETSA]

I am saying that the class struggle goes through upturns, and downturns. You know that.

It does. It goes through all kinds of upturns, downturns and in my lady's chambers....But how does this mean that the Leninist party is still viable? Particularly when history seem to show that, outside of its Russian birthplace it never has been.

 

[LLETSA]

Maybe they have. But I don't think that makes 'Leninism' the problem.

Don't you think that the number of rival Leninist sects that Butchersapron refers to might indicate the impossibility of building a viable Leninist party in a western country?

 

[mk12]

There are times in history when a revolutionary party would have led to the socialism...but there wasn't one. The former Communist Parties had massive numbers. If they weren't controlled by Stalin and directed from Moscow, they could have been more effective.

 

[butchersapron]

 

[mk12]

Sorry, it didn't work.

EDIT - Yes it did...

 

[butchersapron]

There are times in history when a revolutionary party would have led to the socialism...but there wasn't one. The former Communist Parties had massive numbers. If they weren't controlled by Stalin and directed from Moscow, they could have been more effective.

When?

 

[poster342002]

There are times in history when a revolutionary party would have led to the socialism...but there wasn't one. The former Communist Parties had massive numbers. If they weren't controlled by Stalin and directed from Moscow, they could have been more effective.

I suspect a number of people on the left have realised this and have decided to settle for Islamism instead. Go figure...

 

[mk12]

Well in 1945, the British CP got 102,780 votes in general election.

In the 1945 elections the French Communist Party won 25 per cent of the vote...

Germany's KPD became the largest Communist Party outside the Soviet Union...

 

[butchersapron]

Had Leninist parties in these places and at these times.

The latter was also explicitly leninist.

Didn't help at all did it?