Moscow concert hall shooting, 22 Mar 24

[Ax^]

Have we got new Putin's bots

must be some mental gymnastics to think that a supposed world super power who cannie even defeat it smaller neighbour which it out guns in weaponry and man power is somehow winning anything but hey ho

 

[The39thStep]

For those who might want something more constructive and informative than false flag theories, who is winning the war and allegations of Putin sympathising or anti semitism , here is The Insider's article which gives a good summary of the alleged suspects, the chronology and what has been reported. ( You'll need google chrome or translate as the English version isn't up yet)

ТеÑÐ°ÐºÑ Ð² подмоÑковном «ÐÑокÑÑ Ð¡Ð¸Ñи Холле»: подозÑеваемÑе и ÑÑонологиÑ

ТеÑÐ°ÐºÑ Ð² «ÐÑокÑÑ Ð¡Ð¸Ñи Холле» ÑлÑÑилÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑед наÑалом конÑеÑÑа гÑÑÐ¿Ð¿Ñ Â«Ðикник»

theins.ru

 

[Ax^]

all this does highlight how much a shambles the Russia states is in .. it security services ignore international advise because it thinks it propaganda to worry the state

then 4 guys attack a theatre in the capital of the county around the corner from a national guard base, in a city that is suppose to be one of the most secure area covered by security forces and AI controlled CCTV monitoring the whole city

and the 4 fella can casually walk away from the scene and drive 500 miles by car In 5 hours

jebus asking for anyone with terror in mind to just attack

 

[Artaxerxes]

all this does highlight how much a shambles the Russia states is in .. it security services ignore international advise because it thinks it propaganda to worry the state

then 4 guys attack a theatre in the capital of the county around the corner from a national guard base, in a city that is suppose to be one of the most secure area covered by security forces and AI controlled CCTV monitoring the whole city

and the 4 fella can casually walk away from the scene and drive 500 miles by car In 5 hours

jebus asking for anyone with terror in mind to just attack

NATO did it m8

 

[Pickman's model]

The idea Ukraine is behind it is absurd. Of course Putin will extract what propergander value he can, as I said earlier.

Seems most likely is as claimed, Isis inspired local Islamomists though and all this sly ah but what if and who's to say comes across as weasely.

I have not said or suggested or implied that Ukraine are behind it, and the post you quote argues against the thought of Ukraine's involvement saying that for the benefit of people who might think it, it would be a great strategic error. When I said earlier in the thread I wouldn't rule stuff out, that's because at that point responsibility was uncertain - although I did suggest it might have something to do with recent events in ingushetia. Daesh have form with claiming stuff they haven't done, so without corroboration I wouldn't take there word for stuff.

 

[Ax^]

damn evil NATO

*shakes fist at sky

 

[tim]

Niether I nor you have a clue what the Russian government planned.

I can't imagine they planned to get loads of tanks and other military vehicles stalled in a traffic jam on the road to Kyiv and for them to be pounded to scrap by the Ukrainians.

It was clearly a military operation that failed in its objectives in the same way that the much vaunted Ukrainian "Spring Offensive", this time last year was an military operation that failed in its objectives.

Neither side in this conflict has a monopoly on incompetence and bad judgement.

 

[tim]

You know I used to think you held a decent principled position, but you always seem to defend fucking filth like kermit. So I'm starting to think you just hide it better. And for all the times you inisit people back up their claims you never back up yours. Your a fraud pickers, and I don't answer to you.

(((Pickers)))

 

[PTK]

Dunno if you noticed but not all Isis are suicide bombers. HTH

Thank you!

 

[emanymton]

Can you actually point at this? My guess is that you're referring primarily to discokermit, but I haven't seen him post any 'pro-Russia shit' at all. Plenty of posts disputing opinions such as that Ukraine is winning or that sanctions are effective. And plenty of needlessly abusive posts directed at him as a result, a fair few of them from you.

This is largely a case of people making up what they think a poster really means or what the real motivation for their posts must be, when the actual content of those posts does not contain those things.

Right, because constantly posting fantasy shit about how great Russia is, never posting anything critical of Russia and showing zero concern for the massive human tragedy unfolding doesn't mean someone supports Russia's war, sure.

 

[TopCat]

This is not the thread to get into it, but it oozes from everything he posts.

This is sub 12 year old.

 

[TopCat]

You know I used to think you held a decent principled position, but you always seem to defend fucking filth like kermit. So I'm starting to think you just hide it better. And for all the times you inisit people back up their claims you never back up yours. Your a fraud pickers, and I don't answer to you.

Find it yourself if you care, like I said I don't think you are worth the effort any more.

Edit - Oh and it is not the one time you didn't back something up, there are dozens of those, same as all of us. It's that when called on it you ignored it and made personal attacks instead which shows there is no point even bothering to bring up examples if that is how you deal with them

Dozens

 

[agricola]

all this does highlight how much a shambles the Russia states is in .. it security services ignore international advise because it thinks it propaganda to worry the state

then 4 guys attack a theatre in the capital of the county around the corner from a national guard base, in a city that is suppose to be one of the most secure area covered by security forces and AI controlled CCTV monitoring the whole city

and the 4 fella can casually walk away from the scene and drive 500 miles by car In 5 hours

jebus asking for anyone with terror in mind to just attack

Not sure about any of this.

For a start, once the suspects have their automatic weapons there is no way any security service in the world is going to stop an attack on crowded areas without mass casualties unless they are supremely lucky or skilled (really both are required). At the Cambrils attack for example in 2017 five men armed with knives and axes and in an Audi ran a group of people over and then tried to attack people (killing one and injuring others) but were all shot dead by one cop. Against heavier weapons the Russian equivalent of that cop needs to be even luckier / more skilful.

They will probably look at what opportunties existed to stop them before that stage, and of course there probably were some opportunities that if taken might have stopped this (as there were for most of the UK attacks) but that in itself just brings to mind the old IRA quote about the Government needing to be lucky 100 times out of a 100, whilst the terrorist only needs to be lucky the once.

Secondly just because the national guard base is nearby it doesn't mean the national guard were in it; the mention on some of the reports of the time it took them to arrive sound to me like they were probably away from the base elsewhere in Moscow and then had to get back. I would be interested to hear what the reaction time of the local cops were though, of all the reporting so far I havent seen that mentioned.

Finally I do think the CCTV (whether AI enabled or not) has proved itself here - they did get a photo of the car and circulated it publicly very early and it was stopped relatively quickly.

 

[A380]

Not sure about any of this.

For a start, once the suspects have their automatic weapons there is no way any security service in the world is going to stop an attack on crowded areas without mass casualties unless they are supremely lucky or skilled (really both are required). At the Cambrils attack for example in 2017 five men armed with knives and axes and in an Audi ran a group of people over and then tried to attack people (killing one and injuring others) but were all shot dead by one cop. Against heavier weapons the Russian equivalent of that cop needs to be even luckier / more skilful.

They will probably look at what opportunties existed to stop them before that stage, and of course there probably were some opportunities that if taken might have stopped this (as there were for most of the UK attacks) but that in itself just brings to mind the old IRA quote about the Government needing to be lucky 100 times out of a 100, whilst the terrorist only needs to be lucky the once.

Secondly just because the national guard base is nearby it doesn't mean the national guard were in it; the mention on some of the reports of the time it took them to arrive sound to me like they were probably away from the base elsewhere in Moscow and then had to get back. I would be interested to hear what the reaction time of the local cops were though, of all the reporting so far I havent seen that mentioned.

Finally I do think the CCTV (whether AI enabled or not) has proved itself here - they did get a photo of the car and circulated it publicly very early and it was stopped relatively quickly.

No, everyone knows the police could shoot the guns out of the attackers hands if they wanted too…

 

[PTK]

No, everyone knows the police could shoot the guns out of the attackers hands if they wanted too…

With a hand gun held in one hand.

 

[Ax^]

Not sure about any of this.

For a start, once the suspects have their automatic weapons there is no way any security service in the world is going to stop an attack on crowded areas without mass casualties unless they are supremely lucky or skilled (really both are required). At the Cambrils attack for example in 2017 five men armed with knives and axes and in an Audi ran a group of people over and then tried to attack people (killing one and injuring others) but were all shot dead by one cop. Against heavier weapons the Russian equivalent of that cop needs to be even luckier / more skilful.

They will probably look at what opportunties existed to stop them before that stage, and of course there probably were some opportunities that if taken might have stopped this (as there were for most of the UK attacks) but that in itself just brings to mind the old IRA quote about the Government needing to be lucky 100 times out of a 100, whilst the terrorist only needs to be lucky the once.

Secondly just because the national guard base is nearby it doesn't mean the national guard were in it; the mention on some of the reports of the time it took them to arrive sound to me like they were probably away from the base elsewhere in Moscow and then had to get back. I would be interested to hear what the reaction time of the local cops were though, of all the reporting so far I havent seen that mentioned.

Finally I do think the CCTV (whether AI enabled or not) has proved itself here - they did get a photo of the car and circulated it publicly very early and it was stopped relatively quickly.

hmm when have russian force ever worried about human causality before and also they walk thru a police cordon and then drove a car at high speed out of the capital..


now if you looking for suspects the car doing over 100 mph leaving the scene might be a starting point.. 500 miles away 5 hours later is not relatively quick of a stop by any margin

security and police response was a fucking shambles

russian uvadale

 

[JimW]

hmm when have russian force ever worried about human causality before and also they walk thru a police cordon and then drove a car at high speed out of the capital..


now if you looking for suspects the car doing over 100 mph leaving the scene might be a starting point.. 500 miles away 5 hours later is not relatively quick of a stop by any margin

security and police response was a fucking shambles

russian uvadale

Was there a cordon? I'd read it took an hour for first response.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Right, because constantly posting fantasy shit about how great Russia is, never posting anything critical of Russia and showing zero concern for the massive human tragedy unfolding doesn't mean someone supports Russia's war, sure.

So that's a 'no' then? And the poster is condemned largely on the basis of what he doesn't say?

Maybe just shove him on ignore?

FWIW I've largely sidestepped the Ukraine threads because I find the endless military discussions and speculation nauseating, and for quite similar reasons - showing little concern for the massive human tragedy unfolding, in which I include the dead conscripts on both sides.

 

[gosub]

all this does highlight how much a shambles the Russia states is in .. it security services ignore international advise because it thinks it propaganda to worry the state

then 4 guys attack a theatre in the capital of the county around the corner from a national guard base, in a city that is suppose to be one of the most secure area covered by security forces and AI controlled CCTV monitoring the whole city

and the 4 fella can casually walk away from the scene and drive 500 miles by car In 5 hours

jebus asking for anyone with terror in mind to just attack

It's a genius way of putting off terrorism.


Doesn't matter how big an attention seeking attroicity you carry out...they'll ignore you and blame Ukraine

 

[bcuster]

For those who might want something more constructive and informative than false flag theories, who is winning the war and allegations of Putin sympathising or anti semitism , here is The Insider's article which gives a good summary of the alleged suspects, the chronology and what has been reported. ( You'll need google chrome or translate as the English version isn't up yet)

ТеÑÐ°ÐºÑ Ð² подмоÑковном «ÐÑокÑÑ Ð¡Ð¸Ñи Холле»: подозÑеваемÑе и ÑÑонологиÑ

ТеÑÐ°ÐºÑ Ð² «ÐÑокÑÑ Ð¡Ð¸Ñи Холле» ÑлÑÑилÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑед наÑалом конÑеÑÑа гÑÑÐ¿Ð¿Ñ Â«Ðикник»

theins.ru

What does it say, in summary?

 

[Dystopiary]

damn evil NATO

*shakes fist at sky

Yep, NATO have done many things you could certainly describe as evil.

Yes, I support the ordinary people of Ukraine who've suffered centuries of colonialism, and now have to live with war again. (Not their government - or any government). But fuck NATO.

 

[agricola]

hmm when have russian force ever worried about human causality before and also they walk thru a police cordon and then drove a car at high speed out of the capital..


now if you looking for suspects the car doing over 100 mph leaving the scene might be a starting point.. 500 miles away 5 hours later is not relatively quick of a stop by any margin

security and police response was a fucking shambles

russian uvadale

Look - I've no idea how the reporting of this incident came into the Russian emergency services, but it probably involved hundreds of emergency calls coming in from people at or near the venue reporting (understandably) partial bits from their own POV of what was happening, possibly including local cops making their own reports. This would be received in a very short space of time, and they would have had to pick out relevant bits from each of them - the numbers of attackers, what they were armed with, where they were, the details of any vehicles involved and so on - and get that to the commanders and the attending cops in such a way that they could use that information.

In addition to that they've got to organize their own response - which would be massive for something like this, as it would be anywhere else in the world - and coordinate that of the other emergency services. Unbeknownst to them, the attackers would be in and out within 18 minutes, cutting the actual time to effectively stop this to a tiny sliver.

What I am trying to say is that the response to this would be immensely difficult. They have appeared to catch the people responsible within a day.

 

[Ax^]

Was there a cordon? I'd read it took an hour for first response.

what I mean how bad is security in Moscow

soft target for a bombing campaign if the Ukrainian government wants to proceed

 

[littlebabyjesus]

what I mean how bad is security in Moscow

soft target for a bombing campaign if the Ukrainian government wants to proceed

Moscow is a massive city. Of course not the whole of the city will be secure. I wouldn't kid yourself into thinking that any other big city in the world is somehow safe from this kind of attack. Nowhere is.

 

[bcuster]

Putin’s bombs and missiles should be used to attack known ISIS targets, not wasted any further on the bloody quagmire in Ukraine

 

[Pickman's model]

what I mean how bad is security in Moscow

soft target for a bombing campaign if the Ukrainian government wants to proceed

As I've pointed out, there'd be no swifter way for zelensky to lose his friends than to order or sponsor a terrorist campaign in Moscow. He'd be confirming what putin's saying.

 

[Pickman's model]

Putin’s bombs and missiles should be used to attack known ISIS targets, not wasted any further on the bloody quagmire in Ukraine

And where in particular would you suggest they bomb?

 

[PTK]

Putin’s bombs and missiles should be used to attack known ISIS targets, not wasted any further on the bloody quagmire in Ukraine

Where are these ISIS targets of which you write?

 

[bcuster]

As I've pointed out, there'd be no swifter way for zelensky to lose his friends than to order or sponsor a terrorist campaign in Moscow. He'd be confirming what putin's saying.

I’ll’ve had to have admitted. I initially thought Ukraine was responsible for this horrendous attack. Since isis has open and notoriously claimed ownership, what’s left of Putins vengeance weapons should be turned against Isis

 

[bcuster]

Where are these ISIS targets of which you write?

That’s up to russian intelligence to determine