Moscow concert hall shooting, 22 Mar 24

[Spymaster]

Actually, he is right. If Iraq had not been invaded ISIS would not have come into existence as they did.

Rubbish. They might not have been known as ISIS, but the invasion of Iraq did not create Islamic extremism.

And it's Plank. He is never "right".

 

[Spymaster]

It's currently being pointed out by multiple sources that the poor fuckers that Russia is currently parading as "the attackers", look absolutely nothing like the images of the gunmen in the many videos that are circulating.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

You do have to wonder why they gave themselves up so easily, if they were presumably prepared for martyrdom.

 

[kebabking]

Current view is that they've lost the terrorists, and the Russians have just hoovered up some random blokes from the Caucasus - of whom there are many in Moscow - and pinned the blame on them.

Worth noting that for all the 'police state' stuff (and in political terms it's true) both the civil police and the National Guard have a very poor reputation for basic effectiveness in dealing with normal crime - and for the civil police, their numbers are less, per head of population, than the police in London.

I wouldn't be that surprised if they'd got away - and heading towards the greatest concentration of Russian troops and internal security forces would seem unlikely as an escape route of choice. The one slightly odd thing is that that they have got away, I would have imagined suicide vests being part of the plan, but perhaps they have a better grasp of the inadequacies of the Moscow police than we do...

 

[Spymaster]

... heading towards the greatest concentration of Russian troops and internal security forces would seem unlikely as an escape route of choice.

This is a very good point.

"Where are there more armed Russian soldiers and security than anywhere else on the planet? .... Let's go there!"

 

[planetgeli]

Current view is that they've lost the terrorists, and the Russians have just hoovered up some random blokes from the Caucasus - of whom there are many in Moscow - and pinned the blame on them.

Worth noting that for all the 'police state' stuff (and in political terms it's true) both the civil police and the National Guard have a very poor reputation for basic effectiveness in dealing with normal crime - and for the civil police, their numbers are less, per head of population, than the police in London.

I wouldn't be that surprised if they'd got away - and heading towards the greatest concentration of Russian troops and internal security forces would seem unlikely as an escape route of choice. The one slightly odd thing is that that they have got away, I would have imagined suicide vests being part of the plan, but perhaps they have a better grasp of the inadequacies of the Moscow police than we do...

Yeah I just assumed they'd head for the biggest concentration of Russian troops then row a boat across the Black Sea to Georgia.

Nobody surely believes Putin's crap.

Also, eye-witness accounts say the attackers were very professional, eg they killed all security first and blocked the doors. I've also seen somewhere it took an age for the police to turn up.

 

[teqniq]

I think this needs nuance - yes, the destruction of the central power in Iraq gave the various nasties who became IS a place to coalesce and a target (the US, and anyone who wasn't IS in Iraq) to fight against.

But, Iraq was not the only place on the world that such nasties had a 'safe space' within which to coalese and a target to fight against - they were all over east Africa and in Central Asia and the Caucasus. Much like AQ in Afghanistan, the ideas didn't start there, they simply went there because the conditions were favourable, and without the destruction of the central authority and the civil war in Iraq, they'd have have gone somewhere else with a limited central authority and a conflict to get involved in - and theres no shortage of them in the arc from the Med to China.

Blaming the invasion of Iraq for IS is like blaming Martin Luther's fly posting for the St. Bartholomews day massacre or the destruction of the Monasteries under Henry VIII - a contributory factor certainly, but only one of many, and with some of the others being far more powerful/structural.

It's also worth noting that Russia, and the Soviet Union before it, had a problem with Islamic terrorism long before the first American soldier set foot in Iraq in 1991, let alone in 2003 - so claiming there's some kind 'kill switch' on Islamic terrorism in Russia (and well beyond it) had the invasion of Iraq not happend is facile beyond words.

I never suggested otherwise. And i did use nuance which is why I use the phrase as it did. The main players in ISIS as it came to be formed had local connections. Al-Bhagdadi was born in Iraq and it is no accident that after the chaos that Iraq was thrown into after the victory of the Western powers and the dissolution of the Iraqi army that many Iraqi ex-army officers joined ISIS. However you are right to say that there were and still are other safe spaces it's just simply that Iraq gave an opportunity for it all to come together because the conditions were right, with disastrous results.

 

[teqniq]

Rubbish. They might not have been known as ISIS, but the invasion of Iraq did not create Islamic extremism.

And it's Plank. He is never "right".

You are The Incredible Bullshitting Man and I claim my £5.

 

[Spymaster]

I never suggested otherwise.

Yes you did.

Completely, you slippery old chancer!

 

[teqniq]

Yes you did.

Completely, you slippery old chancer!

* sigh * get to fuck. You can twist my words in your head however you please but I know what I meant.

 

[Pickman's model]

You know I used to think you held a decent principled position, but you always seem to defend fucking filth like kermit. So I'm starting to think you just hide it better. And for all the times you inisit people back up their claims you never back up yours. Your a fraud pickers, and I don't answer to you.

Show me a claim I haven't backed up and I'll be glad to remedy that. I'll be sure to return the favour and you can start by showing, on the appropriate thread, where discokermit has glorified putin. Btw pls don't call me pickers, it's really weird.

 

[discokermit]

filth like kermit.

content free personal abuse as normal.
you picked a side, cheered it on but now it looks like you were lied to and the side you chose is losing. now you are angry at anyone pointing out those lies.

 

[discokermit]

You do have to wonder why they gave themselves up so easily, if they were presumably prepared for martyrdom.

it is a wonder. or why they tried to escape at all. not very isis like, is it?

 

[discokermit]

Current view is that they've lost the terrorists, and the Russians have just hoovered up some random blokes from the Caucasus - of whom there are many in Moscow - and pinned the blame on them.

current view of who?

 

[Elpenor]

it is a wonder. or why they tried to escape at all. not very isis like, is it?

Special forces would though, wonder what Mossad have been up to lately?

 

[Silas Loom]

Special forces would though, wonder what Mossad have been up to lately?

Blaming the Joos to earn likes from Discokermit. Not a great start to a Sunday.

 

[Pickman's model]

Current view is that they've lost the terrorists, and the Russians have just hoovered up some random blokes from the Caucasus - of whom there are many in Moscow - and pinned the blame on them.

Worth noting that for all the 'police state' stuff (and in political terms it's true) both the civil police and the National Guard have a very poor reputation for basic effectiveness in dealing with normal crime - and for the civil police, their numbers are less, per head of population, than the police in London.

I wouldn't be that surprised if they'd got away - and heading towards the greatest concentration of Russian troops and internal security forces would seem unlikely as an escape route of choice. The one slightly odd thing is that that they have got away, I would have imagined suicide vests being part of the plan, but perhaps they have a better grasp of the inadequacies of the Moscow police than we do...

They'll be in for a shock and great embarrassment if you're right, and the crocus attackers launch a second attack.

 

[Pickman's model]

Blaming the Joos to earn likes from Discokermit. Not a great start to a Sunday.

It's better than mine, I woke up and almost got ready for work. I thought it was Monday.

 

[emanymton]

Show me a claim I haven't backed up and I'll be glad to remedy that. I'll be sure to return the favour and you can start by showing, on the appropriate thread, where discokermit has glorified putin. Btw pls don't call me pickers, it's really weird.

Well their was time you posted links to support you claim, when I pointed out they did nothing of the kind you just ignored it and responded with personal abuse instead. So no I don't think your worth the effort.

 

[emanymton]

Special forces would though, wonder what Mossad have been up to lately?

What the fuck?

 

[Pickman's model]

Well their was time you posted links to support you claim, when I pointed out they did nothing of the kind you just ignored it and responded with personal abuse instead. So no I don't think your worth the effort.

And yet here we are. One time. And you won't share it so we can go back and look at it.

 

[Elpenor]

Blaming the Joos to earn likes from Discokermit. Not a great start to a Sunday.

Well if the MO is to avoid suicide you’d assume it’s special forces, I am equally fine speculating if it’s the navy seals and the SAS.

 

[emanymton]

And yet here we are. One time. And you won't share it so we can go back and look at it.

Find it yourself if you care, like I said I don't think you are worth the effort any more.

Edit - Oh and it is not the one time you didn't back something up, there are dozens of those, same as all of us. It's that when called on it you ignored it and made personal attacks instead which shows there is no point even bothering to bring up examples if that is how you deal with them

 

[Chilli.s]

I woke up I thought it was Monday.

snap

 

[Pickman's model]

Find it yourself if you care, like I said I don't think you are worth the effort any more.

On this thread alone you've said that so often I don't believe that you really think that. If you say someone's not worth bothering with say it once and have done with it.

 

[Silas Loom]

Well if the MO is to avoid suicide you’d assume it’s special forces, I am equally fine speculating if it’s the navy seals and the SAS.

And yet, you didn’t.

Even though you want the baddies in Russia’s war on Ukraine to be NATO, for some perverse reason, you reached into the bran tub of your head for sinister ubervillains on whom any atrocity might be pinned, and pulled out Mossad. Maybe it’s worth pondering why?

 

[emanymton]

On this thread alone you've said that so often I don't believe that you really think that. If you say someone's not worth bothering with say it once and have done with it.

Not worth the effort of searching for posts, taking a few seconds to post a reply isn't much effort.

 

[emanymton]

And yet, you didn’t.

Even though you want the baddies in Russia’s war on Ukraine to be NATO, for some perverse reason, you reached into the bran tub of your head for sinister ubervillains on whom any atrocity might be pinned, and pulled out Mossad. Maybe it’s worth pondering why?

There is a lot of shit creeping into this site lately. There is pro-russia shit, antisemitism and just out right conspiracy nonsense. It is getting more common and quite a few decent posters have more or less fucked off already because of it. And I'm seriously considering it as well, not that I'm a decent poster in any way. Being on the same forum as some as these people makes my FUCKING skin crawl.

 

[Elpenor]

And yet, you didn’t.

Even though you want the baddies in Russia’s war on Ukraine to be NATO, for some perverse reason, you reached into the bran tub of your head for sinister ubervillains on whom any atrocity might be pinned, and pulled out Mossad. Maybe it’s worth pondering why?

I picked the closest country geographically with a SF unit I’d heard of (and thats only 3 countries, the other two I have already named in a post of mine you quoted), so clearly not much analysis involved but then what would you expect from a poster with a bran tub of a head?

 

[Silas Loom]

There is a lot of shit creeping into this site lately. There is pro-russia shit, antisemitism and just out right conspiracy nonsense. It is getting more common and quite a few decent posters have more or less fucked off already because of it. And I'm seriously considering it as well, not that I'm a decent poster in any way. Being on the same forum as some as these people makes my FUCKING skin crawl.

Understandable. I rejoined at perhaps the worst time possible, and by mid-October had put a lot of threads on ignore. At least the Putinists are in a minority on Ukraine discussions.