8ball
#notallwomenz
I can’t see restricting abortion having any real effect on that.
Misogynist barbarians in Alabama impose forced pregnancy law
- Thread starter Jeff Robinson
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I can’t see restricting abortion having any real effect on that.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Yes, the fear of replacement is real, and could have something to do with it. They just want to walk down the street, and everyone is white. Like in the good old days.
But I can't see how the abortion ban would help them with this. If they were so concerned, they would let the black and brown people abort. White people would not be allowed to keep the numbers up.
I don't see that happening, and I think it is more about saving the babies.
At times, when I read about child abuse, I wonder if it would have been better if the child was never born. The mother knows what situation she is bringing her child into, so she should have to have the right to abort. It would save countless children from suffering abuse, rape and murder.
8ball
#notallwomenz
There is also the damage that people who are damaged (due to being unwanted) can do themselves.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
8ball
#notallwomenz
Drilling down a little at this point might help (table 10 for perhaps the most simplistic take on it):
America’s Abortion Quandary
A majority of Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, but many are open to restrictions; many opponents of legal abortion say it should be legal in some circumstances.
www.pewresearch.org
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bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Yes, women electors support the policy, amazingly, in similar proportions to men. But the majority of legislators are men. There is a record number of women in Congress now but still below 30%.
In state legislatures it varies from Nevada, the only state with more than 50% women, at 58.7% to W Virginia with 13.4%, but overall still under 30%
Women in State Legislatures 2022
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
That would be the table where they deliberately cherry-pick the examples of 'modest gender differences' to show which questions men and women agree on?Drilling down a little at this point might help (table 10 for perhaps the most simplistic take on it):
America’s Abortion Quandary
A majority of Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, but many are open to restrictions; many opponents of legal abortion say it should be legal in some circumstances.
Sorry but in the Gallup survey it showed 52% of women and 45% of men counted themselves as "pro-choice". I think we can all see which way the scales are tilted.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That doesn't seem a huge difference to me. Women: 52% vs 43%, 5% neither; Men: 45% vs 50%, 5% neither.
Record-High 47% in U.S. Think Abortion Is Morally Acceptable
And there is a bit of a correlation/causation issue. The numbers are the same for those who think all abortion should be illegal, the hard-core evangelist position: 19%. Also, there is a marked difference in attitudes between college graduates and non-college graduates. There are more female college graduates than male in the US today.
What strikes me most about that poll is the relative unpopularity of the view 'legal under most circumstances', which is very much a minority opinion among all demographics. It's what many countries with legalised abortion have in one form or another. It's where a likely compromise would be located.
For clarity, my own position is a simple one. There is no place for the law in a decision by a woman to have an abortion. But I recognise that messy compromises are sometimes the best you can hope for. Keeping the law out of it as much as possible might be more achievable than keeping the law out of it entirely.
8ball
#notallwomenz
I assume that you still go with the point of birth as a term limit.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
I assume you're two blokes arguing about someone else.
8ball
#notallwomenz
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm not arguing about someone else. Weird comment. Am I not allowed to voice an opinion expressing support for a woman's full reproductive rights?
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Of course you're allowed to voice an opinion, as am I. Who's stopping you? You're not arguing about yourself though, are you? Tbh I'm not really arguing about your comment (don't disagree with your stance) so much as about the way the subject becomes a boxing ring for people to show off their intellectual credentials.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
ok well I genuinely wasn't trying to do that. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was trying to dig in to exactly what the situation is in the US. It seems in some ways simple (religious nuts, who make up nearly all of the hard-core 'no abortion ever' opinion) and in other ways complicated (the polarisation among the non-nutters and the way the issue is used as a wedge by the right).
I can't see any way out of that without some kind of compromise. And in the end, rights are all very well and good but they count for little if you don't have access and affordability. fwiw I think much of the rights-based rhetoric of the US is counterproductive. You can end up with a beautiful set of rights and a totally shit life.
8ball
#notallwomenz
I hadn’t got that impression about the Dems, but that might be inattention on my part. Had been focusing more on what the Republicans have been up to.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
no you may be right - they just seem to be ineffectual and not actually challenging the republicans in any useful way
8ball
#notallwomenz
Not sure what their options are tbf.
The Republicans are determined imo to get this through to secure that particular voting block (which is a bit in decline but still important to them) ready for 2024.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
yep admitted, they surely have to learn from Trump though who just didn't give a shit about the Constitution or laws or anything else. Enough republican representatives have broken the law, they deserve being placed under arrest which would block the fuckers from voting and pass laws making it a federal offence to gerrymander and prevent citizens from voting. Force it through somehow for fuck's sake or use presidential mandate - at least look like they're trying.
scifisam
deleted
Really? UK abortion law is a compromise.
8ball
#notallwomenz
What’s happening in the USA at the moment doesn’t translate simply to the UK in the 1960’s, and you have one side that has no interest in any compromise.
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scifisam
deleted
The US does in some states as well (California, for example, where the laws are in practice very similar to the UK's laws). It's not as if abortion with compromises doesn't already exist in the US - it does.
8ball
#notallwomenz
I’m going to assume I’m tired and misreading this. Good night.
scifisam
deleted
I think you must be because I wasn't misreading anything. Though it's late, so who knows. Night.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Thing is, the United States aren't remotely united on this issue. Some citizens have got all riled up about something that sounds (though it isn't) like infanticide and while they'd never suggest that a healthy man be forced to donate his matching kidney to someone on the verge of death they reckon nature should be forced to take its cruel course for a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant.
Yes, UK law is a (contested) compromise. But that sort of compromise isn't possible on a federal level because even allowing for that sort of compromise at a state level is anathema to the people who hold the power.
Yes, UK law is a (contested) compromise. But that sort of compromise isn't possible on a federal level because even allowing for that sort of compromise at a state level is anathema to the people who hold the power.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
It really does to me. I had assumed that it was about equal, and in fact it had been stated on this thread that women were more likely to be 'pro life' (I really hate that term.) I know it's only a 7% difference but because it's so close to 50%, that 7% matters more somehow, because in a vote the numbers would be skewed by pro-life men. Which fills me with righteous anger.
I don't think I'm making myself clear; it's early. But yeah, I assumed that men just shouted loudest on social media about murdering babies whereas conservative women were more likely to keep those opinions to themselves, but it turns out there really is a difference, albeit not huge.
hitmouse
entreprenulsoip critical thinking
It seems like a fairly significant difference, in that the majority of women responding say they're pro-choice and the majority of men responding who express an opinion say they're not?
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