Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Michael Howard and Brixton

Mr BC said:
How was Howard playing the race card?
If he wasn't playing the race card, why did he come to Brixton rather than one of any number of other parts of the UK where crime is an issue?

It's not at all subjective to say that Brixton has a very high profile as a long standing black community. It's a fact. Say 'Brixton' to anyone in Britain -- in fact say it almost anywhere in the world -- and those who have heard of it will immediately think "black area".

I'm sorry, you can't wriggle out of it by suggesting that Brixton's black profile is a figment of Jezza's or my imagination, or by making out that Howard might as well have pulled the name Brixton out of a hat and that there is no racial subtext. Of COURSE there is subtext and it is clearly racial in nature.
 
IntoStella said:
If he wasn't playing the race card, why did he come to Brixton rather than one of any number of other parts of the UK where crime is an issue?

It's not at all subjective to say that Brixton has a very high profile as a long standing black community. It's a fact. Say 'Brixton' to anyone in Britain -- in fact say it almost anywhere in the world -- and those who have heard of it will immediately think "black area".

I'm sorry, you can't wriggle out of it by suggesting that Brixton's black profile is a figment of Jezza's or my imagination, or by making out that Howard might as well have pulled the name Brixton out of a hat and that there is no racial subtext. Of COURSE there is subtext and it is clearly racial in nature.


I agree Brixton is thought of as a 'black area'. I wasn't trying to deny that, just making sure I put the argument in the terms it was being put to me.

He came to Brixton because he was invited by a black community group which, regrettably, is not something that often happens to leaders of the tory party.

Your argument is, effectively, that any politician who comes to Brixton does so because they want to play the race card one way or the other. Any way, you'd be hard pressed to find an area of deprived inner city Britain that does not have a significant minority community.

He didn't mention race, he mentioned the lack of police. It is paranoia to think that a politician must be stirring up a racism just by talking about crime in an area with a large black community. As I say, leaping to that conclusion says more about your own prejudices about tories than it does about Howard.
 
I think there are three main reasons that politicians come to Brixton....
1) Wherever you live in the UK, you will have heard of Brixton and to those who don't live here it's shorthand for 'The Mean Streets'.
2) It's also the place that stands for 'Multicultural'.
3) It's very easily reached from Westminster.

So basically it's very useful for lazy politicians.

Howard would have been better off talking to local Councillors ;)
 
Bob said:
There are now gangs, many from eastern Europe

I'm gonna shout "bingo! " in a minute! :rolleyes:

Top posts from IS and Jezza - I'd hardly done more than read the headline on the article and you could see "something of the night" Howard was playing the Race Card. :mad:


Isn't it nice and cosy here in the Brixton forum, can I hang a round a bit if I offer you Hobnobs? :)
 
Mr BC said:
He came to Brixton because he was invited by a black community group
Ahem. You mean a right-wing evangelical christian group that just happens to be black. Which is handy for Michael Howard.
 
grtho said:
Isn't it nice and cosy here in the Brixton forum, can I hang a round a bit if I offer you Hobnobs? :)
Milk or plain? They are chocolate, aren't they? You wouldn't offer us non chocolate Hob Nobs, would you? (Looks menacing ;) ).

You are always welcome, but if you're going to be a Zummerzet boyee, won't the Bristol Bumpkin forum get jealous if you hang around with uzz zitty zlickerzz? ;)
 
IntoStella said:
Milk or plain? They are chocolate, aren't they? You wouldn't offer us non chocolate Hob Nobs, would you? (Looks menacing ;) ).

You are always welcome, but if you're going to be a Zummerzet boyee, won't the Bristol Bumpkin forum get jealous if you hang around with uzz zitty zlickerzz? ;)
arrr, they'll chase 'ee with um pitchforrrk and tractorrr, and thar'll be no zoiderr for that there grtho, marrk moi worrdzz.... :D
 
umm, it is ever-so-slightly possible that there may be a good reason to purchase todays Evening Standard, and turn forthwith to the letters page, but I can't be sure as yet... :oops:
make that monday's!
 
IntoStella said:
Ahem. You mean a right-wing evangelical christian group that just happens to be black. Which is handy for Michael Howard.


I don't think they 'just happen to be black'. Judging by the meeting I was invited to recently hosted by a local black evangelical group, they represent a very powerful force in the black community. One whose views on most social issues I find abhorrent, but there we are.
 
Mrs Magpie said:
I think there are three main reasons that politicians come to Brixton....
1) Wherever you live in the UK, you will have heard of Brixton and to those who don't live here it's shorthand for 'The Mean Streets'.
2) It's also the place that stands for 'Multicultural'.
3) It's very easily reached from Westminster.

So basically it's very useful for lazy politicians.

Howard would have been better off talking to local Councillors ;)

All very true, particularly (3), which should never be underestimated.

Why not go the whole hog and replace him with a local councillor?? I know one who could have his arm twisted. ;)
 
Red Jezza said:
you crafty blighter! so all along this was your machiavellian scam to nick the leadership of the Tory Party! :eek:
:D

Believe me, there's more chance of you becoming tory leader than there is me. Mind you, a very cold winter should cut a scythe through the blue rinse brigade and then you never know...
 
Mr BC said:
All very true, particularly (3), which should never be underestimated.

Why not go the whole hog and replace him with a local councillor?? I know one who could have his arm twisted. ;)

Reminds me...

When the Mayoral elections were on, Steve Norris started to pop up at my bus stop in the morning with alarming regularity (Opp Streatham Hill bus station).

Having lived here for several years, I was surprised at first glance, especially as he was with a photographer.

I couldn't resist asking him "Bit early in the morning for a photo-op isn't it Steve?"

He replied, "It's never too early for a photo op, dear boy...", smiled and got on the 159.

I was watching a mayoral debate the next day and he started saying things like "Where I live in Lambeth..." etc etc I started to wonder...

Turns out he has "one" of his residences somewhere on Tierney Road.

Next time I saw him, a couple of days later I asked "So, Steve. How often do you get the 159 into town?"

He replied "As often as is necessary, dear boy."

Needless to say, as soon as the election was finished... we never saw him again. Back to the limo.

Politicians, eh?
 
Well, the Streatham Guardian is on the ball...only 10 days after the event!
Brixton hits back at Howard attack
By Saxon East


Tory leader Michael Howard has been accused of using Brixton as a "political football" for his party conference after he attacked the level of policing in the town.

Community leaders and residents have rallied behind Brixton police after Mr Howard, during his speech at the Conservative Party conference in Bournemouth last Tuesday, claimed Brixton shows why police have lost touch with people.

Describing his Brixton visit three weeks earlier, Mr Howard told the conference: "In two hours we didn't meet a single policeman. Not one.

"This was inner city London, just before midnight on a Saturday night. No wonder people feel the police have become distant and remote."

But Mr Howard's comments come at a time when latest figures revealed crime in most areas was dropping in Brixton.

At a police community liaison meeting on the same day, people heard how offences had dropped in robbery, burglary, car vehicle crime and gun crime in the past year.

Chairman Lee Jasper said: "It is clearly an attempt to use Brixton as a political football for the Tory party conference.

"Given that he made these visits without informing the borough commander and made public statements on the back of his visits, I shall put a letter to him saying we are enjoying the best of times, not the worst of times."

People at the meeting which is open to all members of the public offered to put their names to the letter in support.

Lloyd Leon, 66, from Morat Street, South Lambeth, said: "He would not have been able to spend that amount of time in Brixton a couple of years ago without being molested by some undesirable sort. That is how much it has changed."

A Conservative spokesman said: "The point he was making was that the police spend only half their time on the streets because of the mountain of paperwork created for them by the Government.

"If Britain's problems with crime and the fear of crime are to be resolved, a suitable police presence is essential."


12:47pm today
 
Mr BC said:
a very cold winter should cut a scythe through the blue rinse brigade...
One amusing thing about this debate is what it says about the state of the Tory party.

Howard, Leftwin and, it seems, Mr BC, may as well be in different political parties, with 'decent' Tories reduced to waiting for half the party to croak so they can ditch Howard's right-wing social agenda!

And with the rise of UKIP there's simply no need for the Tories to be the 'nasty' party any more on social issues (crime, drugs, sexuality, etc): the BNP-in-Blazers brigade now have Tangerine Man, aka Robert Killroy-Silk, to do their dirty work.

In fact, with the revolting Killroy-Silk running about what's the point of Howard? What function does he serve, apart from prolonging Tory Party agony and keeping Blair in Downing Street?

My take on what will happen:

- Howard's in a similar position to Michael Foot in 1982, with UKIP occupying a wrecking role analogous to the SDP.

- Howard will lose next year's general election, spectacularly, just as Footy lost in '83, with UKIP stripping 10-15% off the Tory vote.

- All hell will then break loose in the Tory party, with people like Leftwin and BC making their move.

So the presence of UKIP is vital to drive the Tories to the left.

The big question: do the Tories need a Neil Kinnock-type period before they can get themselves elected again, or can they do it in one jump under a post-Howard leadership?

Blair's defining moment was ditching clause IV. What's the Tory Party equivalent?

A commitment to European, as opposed to US, taxation levels? Getting a conference to vote to stick such a commitment in the Party constitution, along with some guff about 'social fairness'?

So a stake does indeed need to be driven through Howard's heart. I hope Mr BC and his friends are up to the job, not least because it will be fun to watch.
 
A gem from The Spectator....

2004-10-16-4.gif

‘I did see Mr Howard, but I hid.’
 
Could someone scan it in or post a link for those of us who find the sub-standard a tad........errrm "foreign and provincial" :oops:

They'll be a plain chocolate Hobnob in it for you or something. Cheers.
 
Mr BC said:
How was Howard playing the race card? In your terms, Brixton is an area synonymous in the public mind with its black community. If there is a high crime rate in Brixton who are the victims of that, if not the people who live there?

In fact, in his conference speech, all he said was that he spent 2 hours in Brixton on a Saturday night and didn't see a single police officer. He went on to say, this is inner city London on a Saturday night and he saw no police officers.

It certainly is true that crime has fallen in Brixton in recent years, but we fall into the trap of accepting the subsisting level of crime as acceptable. 2 or 3 years ago the crime levels in Brixton (and everywhere else in Lambeth) were incerdible. The robbery rate had risen to levels never before imagined. There has been some improvement of that situation, but it is still unacceptable.

And, God, it hurts to defend Michael Howard (believe me it really does) but I think this particular charge on these particular grounds, is unfair and suggests more about the prejudices of those who make it than it does about his prejudices.
I will now say why I think Michael Howard played the race card.
As I see it, faced with no impact in the polls, Howard has done/is doing what Hague did before him - shoring up his core vote. he's given up on the marginals, and a sunstantial number of the seats the tories lost in '97 and are yet to win back. all his recent efforts indicate to me a man who knows he's lost the battle for the centre ground and is banking on still being around in 4 years' time for a bigger tilt.
so - faced with a threat to the right from UKIP, and a Labour Govt which is brilliant at occupying the centre ground, he lurches sharp right to address that dwindling band of people who've stayed loyal in the pastb 2 election.
He KNOWS that in this (99% white, and midddleaged/elderly) group, crime is ever spiralling out of control, and he also knows that if you say the word 'Brixton' to them, the first emntal picture in their heads is a violent black ne'er-do-well.
This article/speech/etc was NOT pitched at Brixtonians, but at this core vote. Howard's far too bright to not be fully acquainted with this audience's prejudices and gut reactions - he knew, and he played up to it. misrepresenting Brixton and its' police in the process.
 
This is the letter as ran;
Although I no longer live in Brixton, I did for many years, and still spend enough of my leisure time there to know that Michael Howard is quite wrong in his recent disagreement with Polly Toynbee. There have been amazing changes in Brixton in the past few years, mainly due to the excellent work of Police Commanders Paddick and Quinn, and to a whole host of committed hard-working community activists who have worked with them to tackle the area's problems.
You can practically breathe in the new relaxed, positive 'vibe'
I have never been assaulted or even threatened there - in fact, the only 'hassle' I have had was from an over-enthusiastic evangelical Christian pamphleteer who would not accept my protestations that I neither wanted nor needed my soul to be saved!
Yours sincerely
 
Red Jezza said:
I will now say why I think Michael Howard p[layed the race card...
As I see it, faced with no impact in the polls, Howard has done/is doing what Hague did before him - shoring up his core vote. he's given up on the marginals, and a sunstantial number of the seats the tories lost in '97 and are yet to win back. all his recent efforts indicate to me a man who knows he's lost the battle for the centre ground and is banking on still being around in 4 years' time for a bigger tilt.
so - faced with a threat to the right from UKIP, and a Labour Govt which is brilliant at occupying the centre ground, he lurches sharp right to address that dwindling band of people who've stayed loyal in the pastb 2 election.
He KNOWS that in this (99% white, and midddleaged/elderly) group, crime is ever spiralling out of control, and he also knows that if you say the word 'Brixton' to them, the first emntal picture in their heads is a violent black ne'er-do-well.
This article/speech/etc was NOT pitched at Brixtonians, but at this core vote. Howard's far too bright to not be fully acquainted with this audience's prejudices and gut reactions - he knew, and he played up to it. misrepresenting Brixton and its' police in the process.
I think your analysis is correct, which is why the Tory party is tearing itself to pieces.

There's a semi-hidden libertarian left in the Tory Party which is at war with the blue rinsers (and their UKIP-voting BNP-in-Blazers sons). Mr BC dislikes these people so much he wishes death upon them!

That's the delightful battle-to-the-death occuring in the Tory Party. It's amusing to see it acted out on the streets of Brixton.
 
so let's see, inthe space of the past week, i've stitched up Michael Howard been on the Radio, and now in the SubStsandard
Just call me 'meejahdarling' :oops:
 
Red Jezza said:
so let's see, inthe space of the past week, i've stitched up Michael Howard been on the Radio, and now in the SubStsandard
Just call me 'meejahdarling' :oops:

Beware - just recall the sudden disappearance of Justin after he let us know that he was the same Justin as the author of the South London Press "letter of the week" :eek:
 
Red Jezza said:
You can practically breathe in the new relaxed, positive 'vibe'
mmm, not sure about that line....I'm sure the Daily Mail will translate that as clouds of marijuana smoke.......
 
lang rabbie said:
Beware - just recall the sudden disappearance of Justin after he let us know that he was the same Justin as the author of the South London Press "letter of the week" :eek:
errkl!!!
you reckon hatboy's gonna 'off' me? :eek:

:D
 
Back
Top Bottom