Men - have you ever been sexually harrassed at work?

[littlebabyjesus]

Agreed. But it's not sexual harrassment.

I think there are fuzzy lines here. We can't get inside the mind of the person doing the staring. And sexual staring is a subset of aggressive staring in any case. To foist unwanted sexual attention upon someone is an act of aggression. In this work context, though, some sexual content does at least seem likely, no?

 

[Sue]

I think there are fuzzy lines here. We can't get inside the mind of the person doing the staring. And sexual staring is a subset of aggressive staring in any case. To foist unwanted sexual attention upon someone is an act of aggression. In this work context, though, some sexual content does at least seem likely, no?

I have no idea. Maybe it is, maybe she's socially awkward in general, who knows. Obviously any harassment is completely unacceptable though.

(I'm feeling particularly pissed off about this today tbh as I've just found out that someone I used to work with -- who seriously sexually harassed a young woman who reported to him over an extended period -- has just been massively promoted.)

 

[redsquirrel]

Interesting... Is the NDA related to stary-woman Petcha ?

They are pretty much standard in any settlement agreement these days. And sometimes are unlawful,

Petcha are you just being asked to sign an NDA or is the NDA part of a wider settlement agreement? I'm not clear

Winot is right if you are being asked to sign a settlement agreement you should be getting some money to have it signed off by a solicitor.

 

[izz]

They are pretty much standard in any settlement agreement these days. And sometimes are unlawful,
...
Winot is right if you are being asked to sign a settlement agreement you should be getting some money to have it signed off by a solicitor.

That's good to know, being in the position of being asked to sign an NDA is hardly ideal but at least there are rules around these things nowadays, a small lurch forward perhaps.

 

[Petcha]

They are pretty much standard in any settlement agreement these days. And sometimes are unlawful,

Petcha are you just being asked to sign an NDA or is the NDA part of a wider settlement agreement? I'm not clear

Winot is right if you are being asked to sign a settlement agreement you should be getting some money to have it signed off by a solicitor.

The NDA would be part of the settlement agreement I think. They've brought in their global head of HR for the meeting on Monday. I'm inclined to just accept it but if I could push it a bit further... I'll think over the weekend

As to whether she's just socially awkward, no, not really. I had the misfortune of being on the same pub quiz team as her last week and she was chattering away with everyone. She's just really really weird (my exact words to my boss ) I mean she'll find any reason to come and sit next to me, closely. With printouts of my work. Which she's used a ruler to point out that something is a millimetre off. And then sit there watching me while I nudge a fucking text box around the screen.

Just weird.

 

[Petcha]

So I had my meeting today. I got sacked. The Head of HR claimed to know abolutely nothing about my sexual harrassment claims and doubled down on their offer of a month plus my final two weeks. And made it very clear that if I didn't accept it it would be back to the contractually binding thing which they owe me of two weeks as I'm on probation.

I said to talk her to bosses if they were unaware of the mitigating circumstances. I think I may have fucked up as I need this money but I'm not letting this fuckwit away with it. They said if I accepted the offer they would keep it 'in their minds' about her but nothing would go on record if I didn't accept the deal. Anyway. Yeh, they took my laptop and pass and I'm now free as a bird, albeit a broke bird.

I reported it three times.

 

[Happy Tree]

Sorry to hear that. It does make you wonder what some people have to do to actually get pulled up by HR. What do they have on the company that makes them untouchable? I wish you all the success in finding a job without weirdos making your life hard. They do exist!

 

[Sweet FA]

So I had my meeting today. I got sacked. The Head of HR claimed to know abolutely nothing about my sexual harrassment claims and doubled down on their offer of a month plus my final two weeks. And made it very clear that if I didn't accept it it would be back to the contractually binding thing which they owe me of two weeks as I'm on probation.

I said to talk her to bosses if they were unaware of the mitigating circumstances. I think I may have fucked up as I need this money but I'm not letting this fuckwit away with it. They said if I accepted the offer they would keep it 'in their minds' about her but nothing would go on record if I didn't accept the deal. Anyway. Yeh, they took my laptop and pass and I'm now free as a bird, albeit a broke bird.

I reported it three times.

Sorry, I'm being thick - you didn't take the money?

 

[Petcha]

Sorry, I'm being thick - you didn't take the money?

No, I didn't. I told them to talk to the CEO. As my allegations hadn't been passed on beyond my line manager. And said I wanted 13 weeks, not 6. I've been sent a holding email.

Would you have taken the money?

 

[Petcha]

They framed it as 'we didn't need to give you this ex gratia payment but we know you have a child and it's Christmas'. Which is sort of nice but no. Fuck off.

 

[Silas Loom]

They framed it as 'we didn't need to give you this ex gratia payment but we know you have a child and it's Christmas'. Which is sort of nice but no. Fuck off.

When HR people claim that they are being nice they are definitely not being nice. They are playing Deal Or No Deal, just as you are. May the odds be ever in your favour.

 

[tommers]

So I had my meeting today. I got sacked. The Head of HR claimed to know abolutely nothing about my sexual harrassment claims and doubled down on their offer of a month plus my final two weeks. And made it very clear that if I didn't accept it it would be back to the contractually binding thing which they owe me of two weeks as I'm on probation.

I said to talk her to bosses if they were unaware of the mitigating circumstances. I think I may have fucked up as I need this money but I'm not letting this fuckwit away with it. They said if I accepted the offer they would keep it 'in their minds' about her but nothing would go on record if I didn't accept the deal. Anyway. Yeh, they took my laptop and pass and I'm now free as a bird, albeit a broke bird.

I reported it three times.

If I'm the CEO I'm thinking seven weeks money to get rid of a potential problem is cheap. If you don't ask you don't get and you will never see any of them ever again.

When I was made redundant I was offered 4 months and I asked for 8. Got 6. I didn't even threaten anything, just laid on a guilt trip and said I would fuck off with no problems if they paid me enough.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

When HR people claim that they are being nice they are definitely not being nice.

indeed.

i have said this before, and suspect most people round here know it, but HR are not some sort of friendly social worker types who are workers' friends (some young and naive people seem to think they are. not sure there are many people round here who are young let alone naive...)

they are there to do management's dirty work in a way that at least tries to avoid the organisation getting sued.

 

[Petcha]

I mentioned ACAS and the HR woman said they're not relevant yet

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I mentioned ACAS and the HR woman said they're not relevant yet

you've got every right to contact ACAS for advice at any point.

it may not be the point to get in to conciliation yet, though, if you're still working through organisation's internal processes.

 

[tommers]

indeed.

i have said this before, and suspect most people round here know it, but HR are not some sort of friendly social worker types who are workers' friends (some young and naive people seem to think they are. not sure there are many people round here who are young let alone naive...)

they are there to do management's dirty work in a way that at least tries to avoid the organisation getting sued.

We had this really lovely "culture lead" at work and she said she was leaving cos she wanted to try HR. We told her she was way too nice for it and would hate it but she did it anyway. I think she lasted two months. To be fair to her we were trying to treat people really well and were small enough to do it, it was probably good experience for her to realise not everywhere is the same.

 

[Petcha]

Can they revoke their offer of a month if they're fucked off that I tried to up the ante? Coz that was certainly the implication... 'off the record' was mentioned a lot

 

[Red Cat]

Surely you haven't got a chance of getting anything. Your allegation of harassment followed her complaint about your work, while you were on probation. You reported it three times after it was likely it would be confirmed you'd lose your job. What do you think you can gain from this? You have no leverage here at all.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Can they revoke their offer of a month if they're fucked off that I tried to up the ante?

what does your contract say, and did you get the offer of a month in writing?

are you still going down the path of compromise / settlement agreement?

 

[Petcha]

Coz I'm minded to take it now... gahhh...

 

[Petcha]

Surely you haven't got a chance of getting anything. Your allegation of harassment followed her complaint about your work, while you were on probation. You reported it three times after it was likely it would be confirmed you'd lose your job. What do you think you can gain from this? You have no leverage here at all.

Well, no, your timeline is slightly off there. She complained about my work after my allegation of harassment.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

subject to the usual disclaimers (i'm not a lawyer and it's a long time since i was a union rep)

but i have a distinct feeling that employers only start talking about compromise / settlement agreements when they know they have fucked something up, as it's effectively a 'piss off and don't sue us' package.

although there is presumably a point where you can push for too much...

 

[Silas Loom]

although there is presumably a point where you can push for too much...

That point is very rarely the first offer, though.

 

[Sue]

Well, no, your timeline is slightly off there. She complained about my work after my allegation of harassment.

In your first post, you said:

She's now made a complaint about me to my boss, my work that is... so I've responded by telling my boss wtf has been going on. I've not reported it to HR.

 

[Petcha]

I'm very on edge now I have to say. They could just revert to the two weeks. I'm playing a fairly high stakes game here as I won't actually be able to pay the rent if they don't blink. But I do want this woman warned at least.

 

[tommers]

subject to the usual disclaimers (i'm not a lawyer and it's a long time since i was a union rep)

but i have a distinct feeling that employers only start talking about compromise / settlement agreements when they know they have fucked something up, as it's effectively a 'piss off and don't sue us' package.

although there is presumably a point where you can push for too much...

TBF I think they are pretty standard now if anybody leaves your organisation for any reason other than voluntarily. Just in case.

Your leverage is whether you sign it or not. That's why they've offered you 6 weeks.

 

[Winot]

Can they revoke their offer of a month if they're fucked off that I tried to up the ante? Coz that was certainly the implication... 'off the record' was mentioned a lot

Yes

 

[Silas Loom]

I'm very on edge now I have to say. They could just revert to the two weeks. I'm playing a fairly high stakes game here as I won't actually be able to pay the rent if they don't blink. But I do want this woman warned at least.

You can’t include the outcome of a disciplinary process in your negotiating position. It’s a bit of a stretch even to demand that a process is instigated.

Offering to leave quietly without taking them to what they will undoubtedly see as an unreasonable and vindictive tribunal is pretty much your only card. It may well be worth more than the six weeks offered, none of us here really know.

It may possibly be that a tribunal would eventually give you a better financial outcome and would embarrass the firm - and the account director - in public. But it’s a very long shot. Nobody on either side ever really wants to go to a tribunal. It represents a massive failure of the negotiating process.

 

[alex_]

The first 30k of the “settlement” part of any agreement is tax free, so you want to maximise that and minimise the “notice period” part.

General advice here, though it’s about a week too late.

How was your relationship with your boss and their boss - at least 90% of the “do you pass your probation decision” will be made by them.

Also how well respected was the lady who put in the complaint ?

Alex

 

[Silas Loom]

If I were the employer, what would probably frighten me most is a request, apparently backed up by legal advice, that the circumstances of your failed probation be reviewed by a previously uninvolved director of the company (justified because the account director’s input is potentially tainted), with the client asked to contribute to the review with a written statement on the quality of your work and customer communications.

That last bit might seem reasonable and trivial to a lawyer but naturally would horrify a marketing services organisation which knows perfectly well that all clients find someone new eventually.