nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Prof Goodwin offers a mental contortion following the flying of a "White Lives Matter" banner over the Etihad last night, which thus provides a handy rationalisation for racists. He knows how to give comfort to scum.
Matthew Goodwin.....
- Thread starter cantsin
- Start date
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
well the chap who organised the WLM banner was hardly pushed into it - but liberal ID politics does help feed all this white pride stuff doesn’t it?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
It’s clunky from Goodwin for sure. But his argument, as I understand it, is that this is the logical outcome of identity politics - where culture and identity play a decisive role in how we define ourselves politically they become inevitable frameworks through which everyone begins to make sense of the world.
I’m not sure these actions of Burnley ‘football lads‘ are a useful or possibly even legitimate example of the process at work however
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
When he sticks to stats and polling he's worth reading but some of his first thing that came into my head stuff is cringe worthy The banner, the idea of a racist TR fanboy from Burnley Suicide Squad originally was to say White Lives Matter SS. The SS being Suicide Squad. After the event both him and the far right tried to make out that the stunt was to draw attention to the three murders in Reading which of course was difficult to do as the banner didn't mention Reading and the original draft of putting SS at the end may have sent the wrong message. The more brighter far right are of course now describing the murders as homophobic and anti white , an example of how the far right mimic the victim mentality in some identity politics.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes. It’s naive in the extreme to think that a contested hierarchy of victimhood wont be an inevitable long term consequence. Or that the more savvy elements on the far right wont increasingly intervene on that specific basis.
Outside of the twitter/middle class liberal bubble perceived differences in state/media/celeb responses to Reading in comparison to BLM protests and issues are becoming increasingly bitter.
Cut adrift from wider movements of social justice and with natural routes of solidarity eroded these are dangerous developments.
ETA: I think this is the point that Goodwin was trying to make.
Outside of the twitter/middle class liberal bubble perceived differences in state/media/celeb responses to Reading in comparison to BLM protests and issues are becoming increasingly bitter.
Cut adrift from wider movements of social justice and with natural routes of solidarity eroded these are dangerous developments.
ETA: I think this is the point that Goodwin was trying to make.
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Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
NHS Trust CEOs talking the knee and sending round circulars about George Floyd and that (with capitalisation) Black Lives Matter
It’s not hard to imagine how that might be taken as a big fuck you to a diverse range of people
It’s not hard to imagine how that might be taken as a big fuck you to a diverse range of people
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
There really don't seem to be that many people for whom posting on Twitter works well.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Its a difficult environment as its easy to get drawn in on the tribalsim due to so many tweets.Loads of bots and posters who have about 12 followers butting in which you have to ignore. Danger of trying to reply to them all, narrative constantly needs to be repeated, pile ons from the right and the liberal left . Lisa McKenzie for example , who I have some time for , seems to have had a break after being chased down for suggesting that the statues weren't a priority for the working class and it was the 'left' contrarians who mourned her departure. Doesn't help with all these Americans on there either tbh.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Top down gestures that disempower many working class responses and create a well meaning but in fact resentful environment as anyone who has worked for a Labour Council . will know.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
katie hopkins is much improved this past couple of days
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I think the mistake is either thinking Twitter is somehow reflective of the real world. Which it clearly isn’t for the reasons you describe and many more. Or, in the case of Lisa M, It’s about those with decent ideas and politics becoming mired in an endless ruck with fuckwits - which creates pile on’s which are exhausting to read let alone participate in.
The current debate being played out on there feeds directly into the point I was making about the Goodwin tweet. Far right posters attempting to construct a hierarchy of victimhood fighting (mainly white) BLM ‘check your privilege’ types. It’s remote, and yet simultaneously polluting, to the wider discourse.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
It’s dangerous to be mixing the NHS in with this stuff. No matter how well meaning.
and it’s not even well meaning. The health/medical establishment aren’t interested in how their racism impacts on healthcare inequality.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
I don’t recall any NHS CEOs behaving like this when Seni Lewis (or any of their other patients) were restrained to death.
Theres loads of good stuff on there, it's just drowned out by the shouty dickheads and the smirking contrarians. Oh, and it's fine if you avoid the politics discussions too.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It's not Twitter or the atmosphere of Twitter that makes people make bad tweets that they shouldn't have made.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Quite right. It's Ambien .
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Speaking of Twitter, I first came into contact with Zoe via twitter. She posted as AutismMH. No one in the NHS will protest over her death.
Goodwin is closer to being correct in his understanding of Idpol - and the anger it creates - than many on here are
Goodwin is closer to being correct in his understanding of Idpol - and the anger it creates - than many on here are
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Wait till Goodwin comes across stats on ethnic and gender disparities in who gets labelled as ‘personality disordered’ (most likely if you’re female, and white) and the ethnic make up of RMNs.
These people are playing with fire.
These people are playing with fire.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yeah, I kind of meant from the political side. Just a terrible place to start any sort of political discussion.
People and posters from the IWCA have been saying something similar, though the banner was pathetic, must have cost a lot as well.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Care to expand on that?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Wind rush is white identity politics. The hostile environment is white identity politics. Police profiling is white identity politics. ‘Defend our slave holder statutes’ is white identity politics. But if you read this thread you’d fucking think BLM invented identity politics. 
Smokeandsteam
If i understand it, official multi-culturalism,. white becomes just another 'community' and will compete for resources, sorry but i have some cognitive issues, hope i have it right.
If i understand it, official multi-culturalism,. white becomes just another 'community' and will compete for resources, sorry but i have some cognitive issues, hope i have it right.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
You might want to make clear you were referring to Goodwin’s tweet and not the Burnley ‘lads’ banner pal.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
yep, it's deffo been ' liberal ID Pol' that " helped feed this white pride stuff" , and pushed this Burnley fash goon to pull the stunt, and not the weeks of militant direct action by all colours / creeds in response to the cop murder of George Floyd
Has this happened in say France, with le Pen, etc, or is Idpol not as advanced there?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Wind rush is white identity politics. The hostile environment is white identity politics. Police profiling is white identity politics. ‘Defend our slave holder statutes’ is white identity politics. But if you read this thread you’d fucking think BLM invented identity politics.
Impressively, for you, you are half right Jeff. Race, gender, class etc are indeed used by capital to code and organise society and to apportion resources and even to mobilise support for their interests. In that sense you could argue that it was the right that invented identity politics.
Those on the receiving end and their allies have a long history of challenging and fighting them and highlighting the sickness of a politics that classifies and confers resources in such a way.
But the question raised by Goodwin’s tweet is what happens when the challenge is limited to a fight over the narrowest, most repressive forms of disparity correction. Even you must see where it must lead?
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I’d have to know concretely what you mean by “a fight over the narrowest, most repressive forms of disparity correction” to tell you whether or not I think it’s a dead end. Do you mean for example, affirmative action?
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