Mark Duggan shooting inquest in London finally starts...

[likesfish]

Once guns are involved and when stopped if the target does anything other than put his hands up immediatly you've a good chance of getting shot.
Unfortuatly they have done research that concludes when challenged by armed police officers the natural response is to turn round not immedialty obey instructions being shouted by hyped up officers.

Short of inventing some sort of stun gun that actually works these sort of shootings will continue

 

[brogdale]

these sort of shootings will continue

Of course they will, given that agents of the state have been reminded that they are 'lawful' irrespective of the presence of a firearm.

 

[Sue]

'MP [Lammy] would not share platform with 'anarchist groups''.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25702948

 

[Balbi]

Fucking hell Lammy, that's no way to get the mayoralty.

 

[likesfish]

Of course they will, given that agents of the state have been reminded that they are 'lawful' irrespective of the presence of a firearm.

You have armed criminals they exsist
Stopping them means arming police.
Armed police meet suspects chances o police shooting someone very high.
Met police get called out several times a day
They have shot less than ten people in ten years.
Unless your expecting armed police to never actually shoot someone your asking for an impossible standard.
Nobody is ever going to turn around and claim my relative was up to no good so you've got to expect this sort of thing to happen

 

[Fozzie Bear]

So much to say about Lammy...

1. What actual anarchist groups were on the platform yesterday? The Hillsborough campaigners? The other families of people who have died in police custody? The priest who buried Mark Duggan?

2. If no jury verdict should be questioned, where does this leave campaigns for justice like the Guildford 4 and Birmingham 6. Were they "anarchists" too?

3. Some of Lammy's constituents in Haringey are anarchists who have no criminal records but have been victims of spycops. Is he saying that he wouldn't support them in their quest for justice?

4. Say what you like about anarchists but they will actually provide the sort of scrutiny that the police is not getting from the media, the IPCC or the judicial system. Anarchists were at the forefront of exposing the corruption at Stoke Newington police station in the 80s, triggering the Royal Commission on Criminal Justice in November 1991.

5. Whilst we're on the topic of the media presumably Lammy will talk to the Telegraph and the Mail who have printed lies about Mark Duggan and the Duggan family.

I think what we're seeing here is an attempt to criminalise the campaigns for justice for people who have died in police custody. I know which side I'm on.

 

[DaveCinzano]

3. Some of Lammy's constituents in Haringey are anarchists who have no criminal records but have been victims of spycops. Is he saying that he wouldn't support them in their quest for justice?

I think we can all imagine where Lammy stands when it comes to Helen Steel, Dave Morris and the rest of Haringey Community Action on the one side, and lying, cheating, firebombing, child-non-supporting, head-fucking rape cop Bob Lambert and his chums on the other.

 

[brogdale]

You have armed criminals they exsist
Stopping them means arming police.
Armed police meet suspects chances o police shooting someone very high.
Met police get called out several times a day
They have shot less than ten people in ten years.
Unless your expecting armed police to never actually shoot someone your asking for an impossible standard.
Nobody is ever going to turn around and claim my relative was up to no good so you've got to expect this sort of thing to happen

But I was saying, with armed agents of the state shown that they are effectively beyond judicial accountability and censure, this will not be the last killing of an unarmed suspect.

 

[Pickman's model]

nothing then about his apparent prejudice against people from o/s london working in london?

 

[DaveCinzano]

4. Say what you like about anarchists but they will actually provide the sort of scrutiny that the police is not getting from the media, the IPCC or the judicial system. Anarchists were at the forefront of exposing the corruption at Stoke Newington police station in the 80s, triggering the Royal Commission on Criminal Justice in November 1991.

Naturally if Mayor Lammy would commission a proper investigation into the burglary of HCDA's premises around the launch of the Defendants' Information Service, or the burglaries of the offices of the Lawrence Inquiry and its members shortly before the release of the final report; all illegal acts against organisations concerned with social justice where there has been strong evidence pointing towards the involvement of Special Branch or similar...

 

[leanderman]

You have armed criminals they exsist
Stopping them means arming police.
Armed police meet suspects chances o police shooting someone very high.
Met police get called out several times a day
They have shot less than ten people in ten years.
Unless your expecting armed police to never actually shoot someone your asking for an impossible standard.
Nobody is ever going to turn around and claim my relative was up to no good so you've got to expect this sort of thing to happen

Agreed, mistakes will happen.

So, for me, it's a question of whether our police are more murderously trigger-happy and incompetent than other similar forces. And whether our courts and watchdogs are effective.

I don't know the answer to that.

Ten sounds a low figure in a decade. But maybe it is zero in Paris, for example.

 

[eatmorecheese]

'MP [Lammy] would not share platform with 'anarchist groups''.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25702948

What a bell-end.

His own personal political position (and his views on 'anarchist groups') aside, why isn't he doing his fucking job of providing advocacy and support to his constituents and community?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

What a bell-end.

His own personal political position (and his views on 'anarchist groups') aside, why isn't he doing his fucking job of providing advocacy and support to his constituents and community?

I think he would reply "Because of those awful anarchists. They're preventing me from doing my job of providing advocacy."

 

[nino_savatte]

Lammy's doesn't know shite from shinola. He's a complete fuckwit.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Lammy's doesn't know shite from shinola. He's a complete fuckwit.

Perfect material for Mayor then!

 

[DaveCinzano]

To quote Refused, formerly of this parish (via twitter):

i'm guessing the swp will be really hacked off that anarchists have stolen their limelight. AGAIN.

 

[Belushi]

What a bell-end.

His own personal political position (and his views on 'anarchist groups') aside, why isn't he doing his fucking job of providing advocacy and support to his constituents and community?

Because he knows he doesn't have to to get re-elected in Tottenham.

 

[eatmorecheese]

Because he knows he doesn't have to to get re-elected in Tottenham.

Ah, of course! So much for the concept of vocation and duty when you're on the careerist trip...

 

[IC3D]

Lammy has always been absent on any issue involving self organised workers in Haringey.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Once guns are involved and when stopped if the target does anything other than put his hands up immediatly you've a good chance of getting shot.
Unfortuatly they have done research that concludes when challenged by armed police officers the natural response is to turn round not immedialty obey instructions being shouted by hyped up officers.

Short of inventing some sort of stun gun that actually works these sort of shootings will continue

What are the chances that a hyped-up person pointing a gun at someone will panic and shoot anyway. The first shot almost missed him, after all, suggesting a state of panic. The copper appears to have gathered himself for the second shot, which went right through the heart.

If this is what happened - he was shot by a hyped-up copper who panicked - and if some parts of the police reports are true and he had just picked up a gun, then the gun must have been in the box in the boot, and they must have taken it out of the box and planted it afterwards.

The fog of lies makes surmising even the above questionable if you disregard uncorroborated police records as worthless. It's the most charitable plausible scenario, though, even if you believe that it is only the coppers who were there that are totally lying, and there might be some truth in some of what others have said.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

I know Peter Hitchens is paid to be stupid, but this is really pushing it:

It was ‘compassion’ that abolished the death penalty for murder, so forcing us to arm the police – who had until then been guarded from violent criminals by the real threat of the gallows.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...k-Duggan-50-years-liberal-compassion-did.html

So no police officer fired a gun or was killed on duty before the abolition of the death penalty. If only we had records, old newspaper articles or some other way of checking this.

 

[brogdale]

To quote Refused, formerly of this parish (via twitter):

I know Peter Hitchens is paid to be stupid, but this is really pushing it:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...k-Duggan-50-years-liberal-compassion-did.html

So no police officer fired a gun or was killed on duty before the abolition of the death penalty. If only we had records, old newspaper articles or some other way of checking this.

 

[ViolentPanda]

filth shoot dead an unarmed man then go free
The same story I've heard all my life

And, of course, the accompanying story that doesn't often get told, of the injuries so many black and/or working class males manage to spontaneously get while in custody from "running into walls" etc.

Meantime the elite whine about doubts re filth trust index for toffs
proper groundhog day/year/life

Fuck 'em. Like anyone with sense should give a shit that a gobshite MP whose stock-in-trade is being a rude cunt and manipulating others (because that's what whips do) got some of his own medicine back.
Fuck 'em all.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Littlewit lives in a gated community in LA and sells vile opinion pieces to the daily mail who keep publishing him because he strikes a tone some people are glad to hear. He's got fuck all to do with real opinions- theres dyed in the blue wool tories who would go 'steady on' at his shittest pieces. The mans a fucking joke and hopefully will be targeted by a reaper drone by accident

He lives in a gated community in Florida, reputedly one of those "developments full of individual gated "mansions", and where the only black people are the security guards, and the only Hispanics are the pool guys and gardeners.

 

[andysays]

Because he knows he doesn't have to to get re-elected in Tottenham.

Although I've been one of his constituents for as long as he's had a constuency, I'm uncertain of Lammy's future career plans.

But if he were to stand again in Tottenham at the next general election, there's no doubt whatsoever that he would be re-elected

 

[Citizen66]

He lives in a gated community in Florida, reputedly one of those "developments full of individual gated "mansions", and where the only black people are the security guards, and the only Hispanics are the pool guys and gardeners.

He also lives in another gated community in Hadley Wood.

 

[J Ed]

Fucking hell Lammy, that's no way to get the mayoralty.

Interesting, I thought that he was trying reposition himself as a faux-leftist like De Blasio in NYC.

 

[likesfish]

http://www.channel4.com/news/police-fatal-shooting-trigger-happy-fact-check

They are below the world average of world cop shootings around the level of sweden but such low levels makes every case unique.
The nature of police work involves confrontation with the violent,the pissed or drugged, and or the mentally ill. usually at crisis point when the police turn up.

 

[peterkro]

The nature of police work involves confrontation with the violent,the pissed or drugged, and or the mentally ill.

And that's before they have any interaction with the rest of the population.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Probably best that you quietly exit the internet, then. Your blood pressure is unlikely to take it.

The Hillsborough inquiry found that 'at least' 164 police statements had been falsified. That the police are capable of conspiring to falsify documents in order to cover up their own wrongdoing is proven. That they do so systematically and routinely would be my contention. The police force is a conspiracy.

So yes, I don't rule out their having systematically falsified evidence here to paint a picture of a gun-running gangster who could reasonably be considered to be dangerous. tbh I think it is foolish to rule that out.