Mark Duggan shooting inquest in London finally starts...

[DotCommunist]

I fucking knew it. Those pesky vanishing guns

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Well we know Duggan was a wrong 'un. Presumably his evil powers also extended to witchcraft.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Well we know Duggan was a wrong 'un. Presumably his evil powers also extended to witchcraft.

But not to protective forcefields, bullet deflection or teleportation.

 

[MrSki]

You would have thought that armed officers would be fitted with video kit so they could justify shooting people in their line of duty. I expect if they did they would mysteriously malfunction a lot.

 

[TopCat]

It should be interesting to hear how the cops shot one of their own and later claimed it was MD who fired the shot.

 

[DaveCinzano]

It should be interesting to hear how the cops shot one of their own and later claimed it was MD who fired the shot.

Especially as the cop who did it has given evidence that at the time it happened he believed that he had shot his colleague:

matt prodger ‏@MattProdger
V53 I thought "oh damn one of my rounds has over penetrated and hit one of my colleagues." Says it was a moment he would never forget.

11:45 AM - 15 Oct 13

 

[DotCommunist]

they never made that claim explicitly did they? they clammed up entirely right up till now.

The shooty duggan narrative came from a sun journo. Now we know this means the met planted whispers in the right ears but it does give the officers a deniability that they ever claimed that.

unless I misremember the sequence of events.

 

[8ball]

It should be interesting to hear how the cops shot one of their own and later claimed it was MD who fired the shot.

Tbf if there was shooting going on and I accidentally shot my mate it would be tempting to say the bad man did it.

 

[DaveCinzano]

unless I misremember the sequence of events.

Perish the thought that you would ever do such a thing.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

matt prodger @MattProdger
Underwood: How did it get over the railings? V53: I don't know sir. When I reassessed the gun wasn't there. #duggan
Joe Pike @joepike
Officer V53 shown 'trajectory rods' demonstrating how 2 shots moved at different angles through Mark #Duggan's body. 'I can't explain that'.

vikram dodd @VikramDodd
v53 "i didn't start the riots"

 

[DotCommunist]

they were always burning since the world was turning presumably

 

[8ball]

I haven't got a clue what happened here. Do people think the police had him assassinated on the grounds they were confident he had a gun on him, or maybe planned to catch him with the gun, panicked and shot too soon and tried to cover it all up (second one seems plausible)?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Despite all the evidence so far presented - including that reported on by the BBC's own journalist Prodger - the BBC New twitter feed is going with:

BBC News (UK)Verified account ‏@BBCNews
Police saw Mark #Duggan holding handgun & thought he would shoot, got "confirmation" he was armed - inquest hears http://bbc.in/GPg8ij

12:54 PM - 15 Oct 13

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I haven't got a clue what happened here. Do people think the police had him assassinated on the grounds they were confident he had a gun on him, or maybe planned to catch him with the gun, panicked and shot too soon and tried to cover it all up (second one seems plausible)?

I generally try to avoid speculating about this sort of thing.

What is clear is that the police version of events does not stack up and is contradicted by the only independent witness we have heard from so far.

 

[DotCommunist]

I haven't got a clue what happened here. Do people think the police had him assassinated on the grounds they were confident he had a gun on him, or maybe planned to catch him with the gun, panicked and shot too soon and tried to cover it all up (second one seems plausible)?

the claim is that he was on his way to avenge the death of a family member- I don't know if the police believed that aqnd then aqrranged things afterwards to fit that narrative.

the trial of the man alleged to have sold him the magic disappearing gun was twice a mistrial IIRC (david, be sure to mock me if I have this wrong). So it sort of looks like they asked a jury three times till they secured the correct verdict for them


sounds a bit tinfoil hat now I've typed it out but fuck it

 

[8ball]

I generally try to avoid speculating about this sort of thing.

What is clear is that the police version of events does not stack up and is contradicted by the only independent witness we have heard from so far.

Yeah, the police accounts are all over the place - was just wondering if people had an idea of what they thought happened.

 

[TopCat]

Yeah, the police accounts are all over the place - was just wondering if people had an idea of what they thought happened.

I would speculate that the police thought Duggan was armed, him having been set up by another, they then stopped him, shot him, planted the gun to cover their backs, and then let loose a series of lies and media briefings.

 

[DotCommunist]

if that were correct it also means not only do we have an innocent dead man, we'd have an innocent man in jail on a gun selling charge, which iirc is 5 years as standard now.


plus of course all the concomitant damage to people in the riots this shady shit kicked off.

 

[DaveCinzano]

...and then let loose a series of lies and media briefings.

What sort of scurrilous, evidence-free slur is that?

 

[8ball]

I would speculate that the police thought Duggan was armed, him having been set up by another, they then stopped him, shot him, planted the gun to cover their backs, and then let loose a series of lies and media briefings.

So a deliberate killing that went sketchy when the 'evidence' was found to be 'wrong', rather than a botched arrest/panic/accidental shooting that was then covered up? Tbh neither would surprise me that much.

 

[DotCommunist]

What sort of scurrilous, evidence-free slur is that?

you could chuck in hillsborough their too.

 

[ddraig]

<snip>
vikram dodd @VikramDodd
v53 "i didn't start the riots"

"err wasn't me guv!, cough i mean your honour"

 

[laptop]

You would have thought that armed officers would be fitted with video kit so they could justify shooting people in their line of duty.

That would be a gross violation of their privacy.

 

[likesfish]

if that were correct it also means not only do we have an innocent dead man, we'd have an innocent man in jail on a gun selling charge, which iirc is 5 years as standard now.


plus of course all the concomitant damage to people in the riots this shady shit kicked off.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-death-that-sparked-london-riots-8511649.html

Hutchinson-Foster is already in custody serving a sentence for drugs offences and was on licence at the time of the offence.

He was also jailed today after admitting using the same gun to "pistol whip" a barber five days before.

He is seen on CCTV threatening Peter Osadebay then returning and beating him with the gun until he nearly lost consciousness.

Hutchinson-Foster was jailed for four years for possessing a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence and nine months concurrently for assault occasioning actual bodily harm.
Not exactly innocent if caught on cctv beating someone unconcious with an illegal firearm?

 

[laptop]

today

TUESDAY 26 FEBRUARY 2013

 

[Fozzie Bear]

OMFG

vikram dodd @VikramDodd
v53 says the shooting has had "a detrimental effect on my homelife" and says his family as well as the #Duggan's have been effected

 

[TopCat]

OMFG

vikram dodd @VikramDodd
v53 says the shooting has had "a detrimental effect on my homelife" and says his family as well as the #Duggan's have been effected

Not as much as Mark Duggan's.

 

[ddraig]

like mark spit fucking stone
boohoo, sleepless nights etc
don't fucking take the fucking job

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I can see that shooting and killing an unarmed (or armed with a magic invisible gun) man would profoundly affect anyone. I doubt I'd ever recover from it.

But given the choice I'd rather be the shooter than be dead, as would my family I am sure.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I can see that shooting and killing an unarmed (or armed with a magic invisible gun) man would profoundly affect anyone. I doubt I'd ever recover from it.

No doubt there are groups for this sort of thing.

"Hi, my name's Kevin, and I shot a fella in a pub for owning a table leg."