Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[taffboy gwyrdd]

There can be too sharp a contrast between

(i) Sensitive and neccessary coverage and analysis of mass slaughter

&

ii) Mass propagation of psychological trauma including mawkish, fetishised or lurid detail that borders on the pornographic - an approach which is, in the case of ISIS at least, entirely in line with strategic objectives of the psychopath murderers.

How aware are the press barons of their role as ISIS's bitch?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Absolutely everyone suddenly an expert on how to defeat ISIS

 

[editor]

Peter Hitchens very good I thought in today’s Mail on Sunday:

PETER HITCHENS: Really want to beat terror? Then calm down and THINK

TBH, I think Hitchens is completely excellent in this article, and all the better for carrying this argument to Mail readers. I recommend you read the whole thing, as a few short quotes cannot do justice to his compassion, but this struck me as wise:

Interesting piece swiftly dragged down by the pig-ignorant racist morons filling up the comments box below.

 

[Casually Red]

The IRA are hard left politically. They would have wanted an East German sort of Ireland, with them firmly in control.

No they weren't and didn't . It's a laughable assertion.

 

[Pickman's model]

An uplifting article about the german far right

that too

 

[Casually Red]

Well, you would have to ask the IRA about the fate of the 'disappeared' about that.

No, vile as the IRA are, they would not engage in public beheading for disrespecting the Pope. There are lines that even they would not cross.

So , a hard left east German type state run by the Vatican.

 

[8den]

Interesting piece swiftly dragged down by the pig-ignorant racist morons filling up the comments box below.

No! Not the comments!

 

[DrRingDing]

The comments are the best bit. Worth reading the best and worst rated ones

From 'Derek'......

Why don't we appoint Peter Hitchens and Jeremy Corbin as Police Constables, give them each a nice police helmet and a uniform, a few pair of handcuffs and send them off to Syria to arrest these naughty people.

 

[MrSki]

Death toll up to 132.

 

[Jimmy Turr]

Hitchens recently wrote an article where he expressed his utter contempt for UKIP and the present-day Tory party, and bemoaned the way that his readers all too often praised or criticized him not for what he says but for what they wanted him to have said. Sounds familiar.

 

[maomao]

Hitchens talking sense in the Mail. Christ.

I wouldn't call myself a Hitchens fan but he's surprisingly good on a number of subjects and if you've only read offensive excerpts on drugs and sexuality you don't have the full picture. He's a traditional conservative rather than a neoliberal one.

 

[Jimmy Turr]

I wouldn't call myself a Hitchens fan but he's surprisingly good on a number of subjects and if you've only read offensive excerpts on drugs and sexuality you don't have the full picture. He's a traditional conservative rather than a neoliberal one.

He's anything but a neo-liberal, but I often get the impression that his brand of conservatism is one he's largely invented. It even contains echoes of his former leftism.

 

[Nailed On]

Interesting piece swiftly dragged down by the pig-ignorant racist morons filling up the comments box below.

"They [ISIS] don’t work by our rules. They can stay off, or below, our grid. They don’t mind if they die. They will get through.

All we will achieve by adopting such methods is to make ourselves miserable without making ourselves safe.

Our task is now first to mourn with our French friends and allies. And after that, to think rather than to shout. Rhetoric and militancy have not done very much for us in the past. Why should it be different this time?"

V.good article tbh.

 

[cesare]

Death toll up to 132.

 

[Casually Red]

Well the dissident republicans and loyalists also dehumanised people with eg the bomb in the omagh shopping centre, the shankhill butchers murders etc. But there wasnt a huge irish protestant/catholic diaspora they were trying to encourage to move to ireland or to carry out attacks at home. The IRA carried out an attack in germany on british soldiers and that's it I think. And yes IRA/ETA aims were what they thought would support political objectives rather than just indiscriminate killing.

There was no bomb in any shopping centre in omagh, it doesn't even have a shopping centre, and the notion those who went there ever intended to harm civilians is just plain daft . That type of thing was never on the republican agenda and never would be . There's a massive can of worms surrounding those events and here's no t the place to set about opening it . However your point that republican s who disagreed with Gerry Adams were of a mentality similar to the shankill butchers is justly utterly absurd .

The provisionals carried out sporadic attacks on British military and political targets in Europe during the 1970s , which increased in the late 80s and saw quite a few attacks in Belgium , the Netherlands and Germany . Some inncocent Australian lawyers were once mistaken for off duty soldiers and slaughtered . It's believed that these attacks in Europe were requested by gadaffi , although they coincided anyway with the Provos own aims .

As regards the loyalist butcher type atrocities it's been pretty much established now that those different gangs behind them were all led by British agents . So the dehumanising factor behind them has much more to do with the techniques for installing terror pioneered by Kitson in Africa and Aden than anything to do with Daesh .

 

[likesfish]

bollocks
Remembrance Day bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and the rest
plenty of dead civillians in the provos tally

 

[Casually Red]

Not beheadings but tarring and feathering was a thing and not that long ago.

The tarring and feathering involved little more than some black paint and a few feathers , and was traditionally done to publicly shame a perpetrator of minor offences against his own community . A community that often had no recourse to police, courts or an established system of law and order .

Post ceasefire , and pretty much at the open encouragement of the British government, they began engaging in " punishment beatings " , which were basically vicious mutilations . Which kept their community in line through sheer fear . Which is what the state wanted from the Provos during the peace process years . Some of the sharia punishments were actually quite mild compared to those exercises in utter savagery . We're the plot was well and truly lost , and which themselves were in complete contradiction of any republican aims .

 

[Casually Red]

bollocks
Remembrance Day bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and the rest
plenty of dead civillians in the provos tally

Nobody's trying to argue the Provos didn't kill innocent civilians . The point being that when such things occurred they were generally blunders , not deliberate . Although there's no doubt in specific instances war crimes were committed too . Which happens in all conflicts and didn't suddenly become an issue when Daesh sprung up .

 

[spitfire]

And it was the Officials who were hard left, not the Provos. That's my understanding anyway. I could be wrong.

Anyway, Paris.

 

[8den]

There was no bomb in any shopping centre in omagh, it doesn't even have a shopping centre, and the notion those who went there ever intended to harm civilians is just plain daft . That type of thing was never on the republican agenda and never would be . There's a massive can of worms surrounding those events and here's no t the place to set about opening it . However your point that republican s who disagreed with Gerry Adams were of a mentality similar to the shankill butchers is justly utterly absurd .

The provisionals carried out sporadic attacks on British military and political targets in Europe during the 1970s , which increased in the late 80s and saw quite a few attacks in Belgium , the Netherlands and Germany . Some inncocent Australian lawyers were once mistaken for off duty soldiers and slaughtered . It's believed that these attacks in Europe were requested by gadaffi , although they coincided anyway with the Provos own aims .

As regards the loyalist butcher type atrocities it's been pretty much established now that those different gangs behind them were all led by British agents . So the dehumanising factor behind them has much more to do with the techniques for installing terror pioneered by Kitson in Africa and Aden than anything to do with Daesh .

According to CAIN 38% of the IRAs victims were civilians so the idea that civilians were never the intended target of PIRA attacks is simply untrue.

 

[cantsin]

The IRA are hard left politically. They would have wanted an East German sort of Ireland, with them firmly in control.

Laughable,properly laughable , why do you bother ?

 

[Casually Red]

According to CAIN 38% of the IRAs victims were civilians so the idea that civilians were never the intended target of PIRA attacks is simply untrue.

CAIN categorises everyone from informants, civilian workers in military installations , drug dealers and loyalist paramilitaries as innocent civilians .
If you have a theory as to why the IRA would set out to deliberately target innocent civilians please feel free to share it .

 

[cantsin]

According to CAIN 38% of the IRAs victims were civilians so the idea that civilians were never the intended target of PIRA attacks is simply untrue.

That just doesn't make sense - even if the 38% figure was true, you cld try and argue that it highlighted something about the PIRA s incompetence, but tells us nothing about intent ?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

On Irish Republicanism and the left, not entirely linked to upthread assertions but 10 years ago, I got rather put in my place for the following question (I haven't re-read, just dug it out, there may well be some relevant stuff to the tangent)

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...tory-of-the-british-isles.53306/#post-1858945

 

[cesare]

Is this a comparison of daesh with the IRA or just a derail?

 

[SovietArmy]

Sorry I lost what is to do wiht IRA and France bombings.

 

[Sasaferrato]

No the IRA were left wing republicans. I think if you asked half a dozen IRA members what kind of United Ireland they were trying to achieve you'd get seven different answers. Some were seriously religious and others would be staunch socialist. The INLA were Marxist Leninist.

The idea that the IRA were fighting To achieve a east Germany style state is absurd.

Badly put on my part, perhaps. I hold ro my second point though, they did wish to have political power in a united Ireland.

 

[8den]

Nobody's trying to argue the Provos didn't kill innocent civilians . The point being that when such things occurred they were generally blunders , not deliberate . Although there's no doubt in specific instances war crimes were committed too . Which happens in all conflicts and didn't suddenly become an issue when Daesh sprung up .

Kingsmill? Newtownhamilton? Teebane? Birmingham? All blunders?

 

[8den]

CAIN categorises everyone from informants, civilian workers in military installations , drug dealers and loyalist paramilitaries as innocent civilians .
If you have a theory as to why the IRA would set out to deliberately target innocent civilians please feel free to share it .

How would you describe Kingsmill, workers at a bakery. Protestants separated from Catholics and the former gunned down.

 

[Casually Red]

And it was the Officials who were hard left, not the Provos. That's my understanding anyway. I could be wrong.

Anyway, Paris.

The Adams leadership used some hard left rhetoric for a period during their attempts to take over the Provos . It was largely superficial, an attempt to portray themselves as hard line on everything and their internal opponents as soft . Internal debate often saw their rhetoric exposed as something they'd just read in a book and barely understood . It's denouement, which I personally witnessed at an ard feis in the mid 80s , was a motion from the Dublin south central cumman..an Adams proxy... urging recognition for Enver Hoxhas Albania as the only true model of genuine socialism on the planet. Which was roundly voted down . Even after the traditionalists had got up and walked out .
A year later Martin mcguiness announced " socialism is not on the agenda ". And in the background the peace process was already secretly underway .That's how superficial the whole thing really was .