Loughborough Junction chitter-chatter

[CH1]

Then I'm not entirely sure why you're going on about NIMBYs

What I'm going on about, since you ask me to elaborate is how the LJAG set are keen to have neece gentrifying developments in the Herne Hill Ward section of their chosen area - which doesn't include developments such as the ex-LEB or more recently the Higgs - where all stops where pulled out to get it scrapped/downsized.

Yet when it comes to developments in Coldharbour Ward they seem to wish to impose various right-on seeming schemes which the council tenants don't want, and then when something gross is proposed such as demolishing Marcus Lipton so they can then demolish a playground and add flats for sale to an already densely populate council estate - LJAG are late to the party, claiming they knew nothing about it.

Personally I think LJAG ought to be split into a Herne Hill Ward group and and a Coldharbour Ward group as the issues are considerably different.

 

[teuchter]

Seems a bit unfair to LJAG given that they've made a formal objection to the Marcus Lipton plans. When you say they "claim they knew nothing about it" what do you mean? That they have secretly been backing this plan until now?

 

[teuchter]

The source of stink has been found - a rogue brie cheese that somehow got behind the chiller cabinets. staff have not ruled out foul play.

As the cabinets are bolted to the floor and the brie cannot be reached, emergency back-up has been called up from Co-op head office to take the shop apart and remove the cheese. "It's an overnight job".

Normal aroma should be resumed by middle of next week.

Can't they just bring in a large team of hungry mice?

 

[CH1]

Seems a bit unfair to LJAG given that they've made a formal objection to the Marcus Lipton plans. When you say they "claim they knew nothing about it" what do you mean? That they have secretly been backing this plan until now?

No. I mean they knew nothing about it until now.

BTW I was amazed that LJAG spent time and money leafletting the Loughbrough Estate trying to whip up opposition to the Higgs site being developed - and then completely ignored the development on the corner of Barringotn Ro\ad and St James's Crescent which is currently being built - and will cut off light from several of the adjacent "neo-Corbusian" council blocks (which are apparently listable).

Why do they think council tenants in the Loughborough Estate should be interested in the Higgs issue when LJAG high command couldn't give a toss about the ameneity isses of the very same tenants?

 

[teuchter]

No. I mean they knew nothing about it until now.

BTW I was amazed that LJAG spent time and money leafletting the Loughbrough Estate trying to whip up opposition to the Higgs site being developed - and then completely ignored the development on the corner of Barringotn Ro\ad and St James's Crescent which is currently being built - and will cut off light from several of the adjacent "neo-Corbusian" council blocks (which are apparently listable).

Why do they think council tenants in the Loughborough Estate should be interested in the Higgs issue when LJAG high command couldn't give a toss about the ameneity isses of the very same tenants?

No they didn't.

Discuss the future of Barrington Lodge – your chance to have a say | Loughborough Junction Action Group

I can't answer for exactly why LJAG did not consider this scheme one that should be opposed. But it's hardly comparable to the Higgs site which is in a town centre location and displaced local employment space.

 

[teuchter]

No they didn't.

Discuss the future of Barrington Lodge – your chance to have a say | Loughborough Junction Action Group

I can't answer for exactly why LJAG did not consider this scheme one that should be opposed. But it's hardly comparable to the Higgs site which is in a town centre location and displaced local employment space.

And by the way - LJAG's chair said she didn't have a problem with the scale of the development proposed for Higgs (which many people did). She said she was concerned about the mix of uses within.

 

[bimble]

I wish people would just accept Ljag for what it is. Where you agree with them ally with them where you don't argue, but no point wishing / demanding from outside that they be something other than what they are.

 

[CH1]

No they didn't.

Discuss the future of Barrington Lodge – your chance to have a say | Loughborough Junction Action Group

I can't answer for exactly why LJAG did not consider this scheme one that should be opposed. But it's hardly comparable to the Higgs site which is in a town centre location and displaced local employment space.

Thank you for posting that up about the consultation. The first one simply didn't happen. But you can see from the "property section" spin on the LJAG page you put up LJAG already thought that to have a huge development right next to existing social tenants could be nothing but a benefit - to the tenants whose light and view would be affected and the "community".

Whereas a similarly large development in Herne Hill Road is a violation of the "Town Centre"

The Higgs scheme was certainy further de-industrialisation of Loughborough Junction and Lambeth, and a reduction of the number of jobs. That had happened now - even though the developer, Trump-like, has invoked the bankruptcy laws apparently and the site is now dormant.

Final point - LJAG DID arrange a wide-scale leaflet drop about Higgs - including the Loughborough Estate.

 

[teuchter]

Thank you for posting that up about the consultation. The first one simply didn't happen. But you can see from the "property section" spin on the LJAG page you put up LJAG already thought that to have a huge development right next to existing social tenants could be nothing but a benefit - to the tenants whose light and view would be affected and the "community".

Why then did LJAG, in fact, make an objection to the planning application for that scheme, as noted in the relevant Planning Committee notes?

I think the text on that page on the LJAG website is just a posting-up of a press release from the developers, although I can see that it could be easily read as a statement from LJAG.

In the end it's a group of volunteers who put their own time into what they think's good for the local area. Of course they might be biased in some of their priorities, like anyone, and they will inevitably take positions on some things that not everyone can agree with but I don't think it's at all fair to start accusing them of not giving a toss about the residents of the Loughborough estate.

That's quite a big accusation and the fact is they didn't ignore the Barrington Lodge development - they advertised the consultation day and they commented on the application, objecting to it.

 

[CH1]

Why then did LJAG, in fact, make an objection to the planning application for that scheme, as noted in the relevant Planning Committee notes?

I think the text on that page on the LJAG website is just a posting-up of a press release from the developers, although I can see that it could be easily read as a statement from LJAG.

In the end it's a group of volunteers who put their own time into what they think's good for the local area. Of course they might be biased in some of their priorities, like anyone, and they will inevitably take positions on some things that not everyone can agree with but I don't think it's at all fair to start accusing them of not giving a toss about the residents of the Loughborough estate.

That's quite a big accusation and the fact is they didn't ignore the Barrington Lodge development - they advertised the consultation day and they commented on the application, objecting to it.

You are clearly right about the first bit. But how can anyone say for sure how effective their objection actually was - the planning agenda document you posted pools the objectors comments - so not possible to say what LJAG said in their submission.

My favorite part of that document is this:
The proposed development by reason of its height, scale, bulk and massing would constitute an over dominant and visually obtrusive feature, that would be out of keeping and would fail to make a positive visual contribution to the Wyck Gardens Streetscape. As such, the proposal is contrary to policies 31, 33, 38 & 39 of the Adopted Unitary Development Plan (2007).

This is Lambeth Planners quoting their earlier refusal of a previous scheme on the same site in 2008. [section 3.4.1 - and there are a further 4 paragraphs giving environmental objections which were valid in 2008. Not now though - fuck the trees, as one might say]

 

[Gramsci]

No. I mean they knew nothing about it until now.

To be fair to LJAG the Council plans for the youth centre and the adventure playground have been something that no one knew about for certain.

As the Council position at the LJ Neighbourhood Forum meetings was that nothing had been decided. It was brought up regularly at the meetings.

LJAG did not say to much about it at the meetings. Leaving that to me. But they have now taken a position of opposition to the Council plans which became clear when the draft LJ Masterplan was sprung on us locals.

IMO the Council took LJAG for granted as a community group they could work with ie one that would go along with what they wanted. The road closure farce where the Council left LJAG high and dry to take the flack isnt something LJAG will forget.

 

[ChrisSouth]

What I'm going on about, since you ask me to elaborate is how the LJAG set are keen to have neece gentrifying developments in the Herne Hill Ward section of their chosen area - which doesn't include developments such as the ex-LEB or more recently the Higgs - where all stops where pulled out to get it scrapped/downsized.

Yet when it comes to developments in Coldharbour Ward they seem to wish to impose various right-on seeming schemes which the council tenants don't want, and then when something gross is proposed such as demolishing Marcus Lipton so they can then demolish a playground and add flats for sale to an already densely populate council estate - LJAG are late to the party, claiming they knew nothing about it.

Personally I think LJAG ought to be split into a Herne Hill Ward group and and a Coldharbour Ward group as the issues are considerably different.

I'd like to see your data about LJAGs involvement with the ex-LEB site. Thanks

 

[CH1]

I'd like to see your data about LJAGs involvement with the ex-LEB site. Thanks

I'll see what I can dig out. But I don't have the resources of a teuchter. As you might have noted from his analysis on another matter (Barrington Road development) the council reports do not show the actual comments of objectors - either individuals or local interest groups.

You seem to also ignore verbal history and impressions ingested over a period of time from conversations with people involved.

Clearly I, as a person reporting impressions of such meetings am giving my own view of what the facts are. This is not actually a court of law. It is a bulletin board, or chat room if you like. So if you choose to believe that I am wrong, then that is what you choose to believe.

In politics an awful lot gets changed in a way that suits the consensus.

I highly recommend this BBC programme about Neville Chamberlain, which gave a startling new perspective on a matter which had been settled in the public mind many years before even I was born: BBC Radio 4 - Great Lives, Series 40, AA Gill on Arthur Neville Chamberlain

 

[CH1]

I'd like to see your data about LJAGs involvement with the ex-LEB site. Thanks

Some preliminary searching reveals that on page 26 of the September 2013 edition of the Loughbroough Junction Masterplan Framework (so-called)
there is reference to:
26
Loughborough Junction Plan - September 2013
Key Industrial and Business Area (KIBA)
Shakespeare Road Business Centre KIBA
Loughborough Road KIBA
Coldharbour Lane Estate and
Bengeworth Road Depot KIBA
https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Loughborough_Junction_Framework_Plan8.pdf

It is my contention that LJAG used this planning document's zoning to argue against developing Bengeworth Road depot for housing (which they are entitled to do). Defending a KIBA is a reasonable stance - but could of course be confused with not wanting more housing "In My Back Yard" (knowing that continued use as a KIBA would be suitable breeding space for foxes as I said before).

I will see what else I can find later on.

 

[ChrisSouth]

Some preliminary searching reveals that on page 26 of the September 2013 edition of the Loughbroough Junction Masterplan Framework (so-called)
there is reference to:
26
Loughborough Junction Plan - September 2013
Key Industrial and Business Area (KIBA)
Shakespeare Road Business Centre KIBA
Loughborough Road KIBA
Coldharbour Lane Estate and
Bengeworth Road Depot KIBA
https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Loughborough_Junction_Framework_Plan8.pdf

It is my contention that LJAG used this planning document's zoning to argue against developing Bengeworth Road depot for housing (which they are entitled to do). Defending a KIBA is a reasonable stance - but could of course be confused with not wanting more housing "In My Back Yard" (knowing that continued use as a KIBA would be suitable breeding space for foxes as I said before).

I will see what else I can find later on.

I've done it for you, in case you're a little too busy doing other things. Although the Bengeworth development dates back to 2010, 3 years before the planning document. So it's a bit of a tentative contention that three years before a document was published LJAG used it to argue against Bengeworth Road development.

Here you go = 10/02586/OUT | Application for Outline Planning Permission (with appearance and landscaping as reserved matters) to determine the principle of the site redevelopment through the erection of a mixed used scheme provided within a range of two to three-storey dwellinghouses and four to five-storey blocks comprising: 71 residential units (16 x one-bedroom, 22 x two-bedroom, 8 x three-bedroom and 25 x four-bedroom) of which 24 units would be affordable; approx. 108 sq.m of retail (Class A1) and approx. 7340 sq.m of office/employment (Class B1) with 33 associated car parking spaces at street level and the provision of communal amenity space. | 54 Bengeworth Road London SE5 9AJ.

You can also click through to the details of the decision notice.

 

[CH1]

I've done it for you, in case you're a little too busy doing other things. Although the Bengeworth development dates back to 2010, 3 years before the planning document. So it's a bit of a tentative contention that three years before a document was published LJAG used it to argue against Bengeworth Road development.

Here you go = 10/02586/OUT | Application for Outline Planning Permission (with appearance and landscaping as reserved matters) to determine the principle of the site redevelopment through the erection of a mixed used scheme provided within a range of two to three-storey dwellinghouses and four to five-storey blocks comprising: 71 residential units (16 x one-bedroom, 22 x two-bedroom, 8 x three-bedroom and 25 x four-bedroom) of which 24 units would be affordable; approx. 108 sq.m of retail (Class A1) and approx. 7340 sq.m of office/employment (Class B1) with 33 associated car parking spaces at street level and the provision of communal amenity space. | 54 Bengeworth Road London SE5 9AJ.

You can also click through to the details of the decision notice.

I think LJAG did oppose the change from a KIBA to Housing, and indeed the site is still a KIBA in the latest version of the Lambeth Local Plan (page 248) https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/pl-lambeth-local-plan-2015-web.pdf

As you will have seen with regard to the plans from 2010 which you have put up - there are 4 objections which are "unavailable" (presumably because of the time delay - and issue of computerising planning records).

I don't have access to LJAG's planning records, and neither of us has access to Lambeth's records in detail.

Seems to me we have a stalemate here. I believe LJAG prioritise Herne Hill ward when it comes to planning objections.
I concede you have demonstrated that LJAG objected to Barrington Road - but at the very least you must concede that LJAG's endeavours at blocking developments has indeed at least slowed up developments in SE5 and SE24, whereas SW9 remains at the mercy of council-initiated overdevelopment.

 

[ChrisSouth]

Seems to me we have a stalemate here.

I wasn't aware there was a battle going on.

 

[Lizzy Mac]

(I think) someone's dumped some asbestos on the corner of Wanless Road and Herne Hill Road.
Anyone know how we get rid of it?

 

[Harbourite]

i think coop new outside branding is quite nice could be lot worse.

any ideas on what the shop next to cost cutter (was second hand place) is going to become?

 

[Angellic]

Wandered through Oval Quarter this morning on the way to the Health Centre. Are there any images of what was there before? Have a vague memory of what surrounded the submarine.

 

[bimble]

This morning the jury gave a verdict of manslaughter in the case of the death of a young man called Jerrell Elie who was killed here in Flaxman Road last Summer and whom I happened to see dying (I did't see the actual incident and was not called as a witness in the end to my great relief ).
It's in the news today. Don't know why I'm putting this here really, apart from to say that at the time I was totally convinced in my head that the police didn't give a shit and weren't really interested in investigating it properly, because just another dead teenaged black boy etc but it turns out I was wrong about that. Probably part of being in shock and upset and a bit paranoid for a while.
Went to Old Bailey and heard the summing up of evidence the other day and it was really meticulously put together, solid enough to convince me who was so sure the police were wrong (I was totally adamant that I hadn't heard a car) .
It's heartbreakingly awful what happened but at least the police did do their job.
I hope his family will take some comfort in that at least.
Sentence not announced yet just the verdict.
'Teen was run over and left to die after snitching to police'
Man found guilty of manslaughter after crushing teen with car

 

[bimble]

just to cheer everyone up here's a couple of pics from my trip to Tescos this bleak wintry morning

 

[Lizzy Mac]

View attachment 94574

View attachment 94577
just to cheer everyone up here's a couple of pics from my trip to Tescos this bleak wintry morning

I have spectacular spider's web laden in fog but I can't get a good snap.

 

[bimble]

This meeting is tonight, if anyone can make it - an opportunity to at least get your views written down if not heard, on the LJ Masterplan in general (including the masterplan to sell off the playground for flats)

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c6783...lanconsultationresponseLJNPF10_10_2016.01.pdf

 

[The Fornicator]

I'd like to but it's become like trying to get your head around the third runway - I went to the public thing at the same venue about a month ago and you need a Phd in graphic visualisation and a spare month to reach level 1.

 

[bimble]

I'd like to but it's become like trying to get your head around the third runway - I went to the public thing at the same venue about a month ago and you need a Phd in graphic visualisation and a spare month to reach level 1.

Noo ! don't say that. That's what they want you to feel. I'm really terrible at reading maps and understanding 3D drawings and all that, and I know it's a total shambles with all these different plans and so on, but I'm going because I want to make sure that they can't get away with pretending that everyone who lives here is totally fine with the idea of the playground being sold off and transformed into a block of flats.

 

[Lizzy Mac]

Noo ! don't say that. That's what they want you to feel. I'm really terrible at reading maps and understanding 3D drawings and all that, and I know it's a total shambles with all these different plans and so on, but I'm going because I want to make sure that they can't get away with pretending that everyone who lives here is totally fine with the idea of the playground being sold off and transformed into a block of flats.

Keep the bit between your teeth Bimble.

 

[Gramsci]

I'd like to but it's become like trying to get your head around the third runway - I went to the public thing at the same venue about a month ago and you need a Phd in graphic visualisation and a spare month to reach level 1.

Reports on the meeting on the LJ Masterplan thread.

 

[Gramsci]

Sunshine Arts are doing Xmas"Flea" market every Saturday in November.

Handmade cards, clothes and food.


Carnival C.A.F.E OpEN!- Charity Flea Market
10:00 am - 3:00 pm

The only Carnival Cafe in the UK ! Our café bar is fully licensed and enjoys free Wi-Fi in a comfortable and creative atmosphere; we offer homemade refreshments, daily lunches and Caribbean treats. ‘Mulana’ Charity Flea Market All items 50p-£5 Grab a bargain and help us fundraise for our charitable project ‘Mulana: The Art Of People’. We will be serving up homemade Caribbean Soup and our new range of chutneys will be available to purchase. Mulana items will also be on sale and an…

The Mulana charity helps women in India.

 

[Harbourite]

i'd really appreciate advice from posters on a situation which is undoubtedly far too common ...

a neighbour knocked on my door earlier. she asked me to come to see the situation she is living in.

there are 14 people living in four rooms, including 3 families of 4, each with 2 kids under ten years old and one infant. there is no heating - they are relying on electric fan heaters. there is no hot water - relying on boiling saucepans of water. there is one bathroom for the house - the toilet does not flush. it is in a general state of significant disrepair (damp, broken windows, broken floor tiles, no bannisters in stair rail) and there is clear evidence of mice and cockroaches throughout the house. she told me they also have rats. no smoke alarms detectors or clear exit routes in case of a fire.

my neighbour has asked for my help - to speak to someone "official" ASAP on their behalf as they don't speak english. she is equals parts angry, afraid and upset.

the advice i need - who do i call? how do i help? who do i need to involve and what do i need to say?

i ask these questions because i am sceptical about the lambeth council "machine" and just calling the numbers given on the website and getting fobbed off. and i am so fucking angry about this that i may not go about it in the most level-headed way.

thanks for any advice or experience anyone has that can help