Loughborough Junction chitter-chatter

[editor]

I never quite got what the Beanery was up to: it seemed to change direction after a while and the internal shuffling about made the place look rather worse. For while they were putting on live entertainment and then they seemed to give up on that, and then their opening hours became more and more erratic.

It's a shame if it's gone though. There't not a great deal of choice around that area..

 

[Ian Clark]

I never quite got what the Beanery was up to: it seemed to change direction after a while and the internal shuffling about made the place look rather worse. For while they were putting on live entertainment and then they seemed to give up on that, and then their opening hours became more and more erratic.

It's a shame if it's gone though. There't not a great deal of choice around that area..

The Beanery site is going to be changed into a ticket office so that retail site is gone for good; we were looking for a permanent outlet and got the bad news

 

[CH1]

The Beanery site is going to be changed into a ticket office so that retail site is gone for good; we were looking for a permanent outlet and got the bad news

Is the ticket office going to be changed back into a waiting room & en suite toilet then?

 

[Gramsci]

Well had a read of the minutes of the last LJ neighbourhood planning forum (LJNPF) and the minutes of the first meeting of the new Loughborough Junction Steering Group (LJSG)

Already a problem with consultation.

Appears that the LJSG which will deal with public realm improvements is small group. See Cllr Matt Parrs comment in the LJNPF minutes:

"10. Any other business.
KB expressed concern at the proliferation of meetings and whether there might be some
scope for combined the LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forum meetings with those of
Councillor Brathwaite’s steering group. MP (Cllr Matt Parr) pointed out that Councillor Brathwaite’s steering group was meant to be working as a small group, whereas the LJ Neighbourbood Planning Forum was a larger group and had a wider brief. It was decided to hold the next meeting of the LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forum meeting on Thursday 28 January 28 after the announcement of the outcome of the GLA bid rather than the scheduled Wednesday 15 January.
AM to email Councillor Jenny Brathwaite and Steven Wong, the Lambeth Council project
officer, to see if there was scope for holding both the LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forum
and Councillor Brathwaite’s steering group on the same evening."

So it was only due to intervention of KB that the rest of us get a chance to attend.

The minutes of the first LJSG show that in fact the brief for the steering group is wide in sense that whatever is decided will affect all those who use LJ on a day to day basis.

See here what Cllr Braithwaite says in the minutes of the first steering group:

JB outlined that the road closures have been difficult for everyone, but hoped that this
group could move forward with a clean slate and work toward a vision for the public
realm elements of the project. Importantly JB noted that the steering group was not
about designing the scheme, but working together to engage the rest of the community
to deliver on local aspiration and make Loughborough Junction a place that people
wanted to stop in and spend time.

Not happy that first reaction of Council following the road closure issue is to set up a "small group" to consult on public realm improvements.

I thought that all those who most opposed the road closures were complaining about lack of wider consultation?

Council officer at the LJ Steering Group outlined how this group could work:

SW made clear that this was an example only and a suggestion of what the
Loughborough Junction Steering Group could be. The group members for Westminster
Bridge Road take their roles and responsibilities seriously, acting as champions of the
project and advocates at their own respective community ‘sub’ meetings. It was also
noted that groups did not always agree on aspects of different projects, but always found
ways to compromise where needed. SW then advised the group about consultation on Westminster Bridge Road and the willingness of groups to be present at consultation events to answer questions from the wider public. This model has worked well in Waterloo and goes a long way with establishing trust amongst the public when their questions are being answered by members of their own community, as well as Council officers.

So its clear from that quote that the Council see the Steering Group made up of groups who will report back to joe public once the decisions have been made and sell the planned public improvements to joe public.

Didnt look like there was much objection to this from minutes of LJSG.

Hmm.

This is not a good start.

 

[teuchter]

Well - that's what a steering group is, by definition.

Once you have more than a certain number of people in a room (especially with wildly differing views) it becomes pretty much impossible to decide anything. Or in extreme cases (like with the road meetings) not even possible to discuss anything.

What's the better solution?


edit to add - I don't think they are actually saying that the steering group members only discuss with the public once all the decisions have already been made.

 

[Gramsci]

Well - that's what a steering group is, by definition.

Once you have more than a certain number of people in a room (especially with wildly differing views) it becomes pretty much impossible to decide anything. Or in extreme cases (like with the road meetings) not even possible to discuss anything.

What's the better solution?


edit to add - I don't think they are actually saying that the steering group members only discuss with the public once all the decisions have already been made.

Do it through the existing LJ Neighbourhood Planning meetings. Which I know have a problem with being tainted with the LJAG brand.


Or do it the way the masterplan was done with an open to all reference group. That group was preceded by pop up consultation events where anyone could express an interest in attending. So it was done as a combination of invited reps from groups and local individuals.

Looks to me that several groups are missing from the Steering Group- Brixton Society and the Youth Centre ( so no rep from young people).

I also think that this should have been preceded with a wider discussion of how people are to be consulted.

The minutes show just one option was put forward by the Council.

 

[Gramsci]

Well - that's what a steering group is, by definition.

Once you have more than a certain number of people in a room (especially with wildly differing views) it becomes pretty much impossible to decide anything. Or in extreme cases (like with the road meetings) not even possible to discuss anything.

What's the better solution?


edit to add - I don't think they are actually saying that the steering group members only discuss with the public once all the decisions have already been made.

Looks to me from the minutes that any alternative road closure ( ie in the so called middle class areas) to reduce through traffic have been squashed from the outset. An idea that did have some support to be looked into early on when there was outcry about the experimental closures.

The wildly differing view that has been excluded is that one.

The suggestions put forward include = car park, more parking spaces and what is termed "road accessibility to reduce pressure on other roads" ie in plain language unrestricted use of side roads for the hard pressed motorist.

So its a scheme gone from a scheme dominated by LJAG to one dominated by the motorist lobby.

Several people on the Loughborough estate I talked to over the time of the road closures wanted through traffic reduced but not the whole road closed off with LJAGs square.

Such as banning lorries using Loughborough road and setting up a CPZ zone.

Maybe I am being to sceptical of this. Time will tell.

 

[teuchter]

Looks to me from the minutes that any alternative road closure ( ie in the so called middle class areas) to reduce through traffic have been squashed from the outset.

The list of possible measures includes "pedestrianise front of station". That would imply a closure.

Also mentions making Hinton/Herne Hill Rd one way - although I'm not sure exactly how that would work.

I'm not sure that alternative road closures have been squashed from the outset so much as not suggested by the members of the group.

Supposedly the attendees are representative of local people - so maybe if people want these kinds of more radical measures considered they should write to the relevant people - LJAG, say, expressing their support for such an idea and asking for it to be pushed. In fact, I might do this.

All the people supporting the Road Madness campaign but claiming to be open minded about alternative closures could write to the Road madness representative asking that she makes these proposals. Likewise LETRA members could ask their rep, or the LEMB guy. I doubt this is going to happen though.

 

[teuchter]

Or do it the way the masterplan was done with an open to all reference group. That group was preceded by pop up consultation events where anyone could express an interest in attending. So it was done as a combination of invited reps from groups and local individuals.

But you were saying upthread about how you thought the real views of the group (re the farm) had been misrepresented by the consultation advisers! It seems to me that whatever you do, someone will claim that views have not been represented properly.

It's tempting to say that any pseudo-formal "consultation" is just a waste of time and money. It's impossible to satisfy everyone.

 

[goldengraham]

Does anyone know who is going into the revamped Loughborough House shop units? I assume the internet cafe is returning to one of them, but they both look near to completion.

FWIW, I don't think the Loughborough House renovation looks too bad, now the render is on. It even looks like they've put wooden sash windows into the flats facing the front, which won't have been cheap.

 

[teuchter]

That was one of the planning conditions.

They have built it partly but not fully according to what they had permission for. So - it could have been worse, although it could also have been a lot better if Lambeth had done their job properly.

 

[Gramsci]

But you were saying upthread about how you thought the real views of the group (re the farm) had been misrepresented by the consultation advisers! It seems to me that whatever you do, someone will claim that views have not been represented properly.

It's tempting to say that any pseudo-formal "consultation" is just a waste of time and money. It's impossible to satisfy everyone.

The Council know there are mixed feelings about the Farm. Its been criticised at meetings in front of officers. And I have had one officer, off the record, being critical of LJAG. So no excuse to say it has huge support. Personally I do not have a problem with the Farm.

And there is the issue of the Adventure Playground that needs clearing up. As bimble and me both feel that the consultation report does not reflect what people said.

Its not about satisfying everyone. Its about correctly recording what was said at meetings and making sure that this is in the finished reports.

I don’t think the Council is helping matters by skating over the divisions in LJ in its finished reports.

It was Cllr Rachel who said the way that the Council consults people is inadequate. I dont think consultation needs to be a waste of time.

My feeling- and Ive said this at other consultations- is that in the end the decision lies with the Council. Thats how the system works. I would be happy ( sort of) if Council made sure that views that are contrary to what the Council decides are recorded.

There is always the suspicion ( warranted imo) that the Council expects officers to "manage" consultation to get the "right" answers. Or cut people out of the conversation if they start asking to many questions ( as with the Brixton Rec Users Group). Its not inevitable that this needs to happen.

 

[CH1]

There is always the suspicion ( warranted imo) that the Council expects officers to "manage" consultation to get the "right" answers. Or cut people out of the conversation if they start asking to many questions ( as with the Brixton Rec Users Group). Its not inevitable that this needs to happen.

This is it.

 

[Gramsci]

Finally saw the handsome security guard in the Coop. Rather than looking for shoplifters he was being chatted up by a lady. Clearly a popular guy. Should get a bonus for attracting customers.

bimble

 

[CH1]

Overwhelmed by the social responsibility shown by Lib Peck turning up at the Housing March, I decided to slope off to catch the architects consultation for 213 Coldharbour Lane (former bedding shop corner of Hinton Road). That's my street cred gone - and it's only January 30th!

The consultation was held at the Junction pub. Unfortunately they were not standing you a pint if you said nice things about them.

The designs still seemed to be slightly "fluid". However the architectural drawings showed adventurous cladding materials and also curvy bits on corners, which I rather liked. The general look is rather different from the London vernacular of the Higgs Triangle design and the new Harrier building (or Brixton Square/Oval Quarter/New Albemarle etc etc ad nauseum). Let's hope they keep it that way.

The design is for 9 flats, including a penthouse on top with separate lift access. There would be shop units on the ground floor, and probably offices on the level above that.

I thought it looked OK - but of course it is a totally private scheme with no social or affordable element.

They are talking about submitting a planning application by the end of March. So at that point we will see what they have finally decided on.

 

[Gramsci]

I went to the combined "Steering Group" on how the money for improving the LJ streets is to be spent and the LJ Neighbourhood Planning meeting.

Gatecrashed the Steering Group didnt seem a problem until I started to say things.

I did not have all the info for the Steering Group as it had only be sent out to those on it.

• Any discussion of alternative road closures is not allowed. I brought this up. That early on it had been suggested to bring in road closure in the "middle class" bit of LJ to reduce through traffic. Did not go down well. Will not even be looked at as an option.

• This is despite that it was said this consultation was "starting from scratch".

• The bulk of the funding is from TFL. Some extra funding is from Section106 agreements. One of which is earmarked for Wyck Gardens.

• The issue of TFL service level agreements for segregated cycle lanes. No update on this as officers had not had reply or followed it up. As TFL are funding this the may require improvements that benefit pedestrians and cyclists. So imo the only way this will happen is if TFL expect it as part of there funding. From what I saw of meeting Council officers/ Cllrs are not going to push for this in any way. Basically the car lobby will have there way.

• The meeting is used as a reference point an early design for alterations to the cross roads (minus the actual road closure of Loughborough road). So increasing pavements and this narrowing road around the cross road as well as having raised surface. Pretty standard stuff used in West end. This had objection as it reduced space for cars and why have wider pavements- whats the point.

• A lot of feel good talk from officers about trying to get other funding to do up shopfronts and making LJ nicer. Which I did not really understand. As I was told , in no uncertain terms, that the remit for the Steering group was just the cross roads and improving the roads/ pavements. But then I was talking about alternatives to reduce traffic. Not sure what is going on. Is the Steering Group meant to take over from the LJAG tainted Neighbourhood Planning Forum?

• But the overall impression I got is that the officers/ Cllrs will let the car lobby set the agenda

• So the view that the closure of Loughborough road was a mistake but traffic should be reduced in other ways is imo knocked on the head from the start unless TFL from above insist on this with a service level agreement. Which the Council officers arent exactly falling over themselves to find out about.

• Wider consultation. Well this was discussed. But seems to me that the Steering Group will decide a plan and then put it out for discussion. Cant say I was happy with this as a major complaint of previous consultation was that it was not wide enough from the start.

• Some of the Council tenants I talked to have said they objected to the initial scheme but wanted traffic reduced in other ways.( A lot of this was antipathy to LJAG ) But it does not look to me that this is going to happen.

 

[leanderman]

Big win for the car lobby

 

[CH1]

Big win for the car lobby

Frankly if these people wanted to do some good for the people in Loughborough Junction not involving cars, they should improve the P5 bus so it calls at the Akerman Health Centre. For disabled and elderly patients.

Akerman is a PFI contract that has so far had 3 local surgeries forced into it and merged, including the Iveagh House surgery that was in Loughborough Road at Five Ways. Frankly I am sure this move on the part of the PCT cost Dr Konzon his life. He was stressed out by it and if he died of a brain haemorrhage (it says on the surgery web site). Wouldn't surprise me if it was otherwise. A GP in my practice as a kid in Bury st Edmunds blew his brains out because his wife was unfaithful. Just being a GP is no guarantee of a sane approach to life.

The least the bastards could do was provide a proper bus service for disabled and elederly "customers".

Oh - I forgot we don't have appointments now do we? We have triage and call-back.In which case why built a cripplingly expensive architect designed PFI health centre?

 

[xsunnysuex]

Does anyone know what's happening with the paper shop in Loughborough Rd, corner of Rathgar Rd? It's been shut up for two days now. Not like them at all.

 

[Gramsci]

Does anyone know what's happening with the paper shop in Loughborough Rd, corner of Rathgar Rd? It's been shut up for two days now. Not like them at all.

I wondered why as it was shut on Saturday when I went to top up my Oyster card.

 

[xsunnysuex]

I wondered why as it was shut on Saturday when I went to top up my Oyster card.

Yep. I also went to top up oyster. It's been closed all day today too. Very strange.

 

[critical1]

Page 25 of the final stage 2 consultation report:

Even with this kind of hyperbole reading the report one can see the divisions in LJ.

Jokers the lot of them.... LJAG(Farm) has HUGE local support???? NOT

 

[CH1]

Jokers the lot of them.... LJAG(Farm) has HUGE local support???? NOT

Quite a write-up in the latest Brixton Bugle.

If £3 million of public funding is going on this - why are they destroying the Carnegie Library?

 

[snowy_again]

Different budgets.

 

[LadyV]

Frankly if these people wanted to do some good for the people in Loughborough Junction not involving cars, they should improve the P5 bus so it calls at the Akerman Health Centre. For disabled and elderly patients.

Akerman is a PFI contract that has so far had 3 local surgeries forced into it and merged, including the Iveagh House surgery that was in Loughborough Road at Five Ways. Frankly I am sure this move on the part of the PCT cost Dr Konzon his life. He was stressed out by it and if he died of a brain haemorrhage (it says on the surgery web site). Wouldn't surprise me if it was otherwise. A GP in my practice as a kid in Bury st Edmunds blew his brains out because his wife was unfaithful. Just being a GP is no guarantee of a sane approach to life.

The least the bastards could do was provide a proper bus service for disabled and elederly "customers".

Oh - I forgot we don't have appointments now do we? We have triage and call-back.In which case why built a cripplingly expensive architect designed PFI health centre?

Yes the bus stop could definitely do with being moved up, although personally I'm thinking of changing from there, with the Oval Quarter now being filled, have gone from a 2 to 3, 4 max day wait for an appointment to 10 days when I phoned up last week. 10 days! It's no wonder some people end up going to A&E instead. What's even more frustrating, they're still accepting new patients. Shame really as the people there are lovely.

 

[bimble]

Yes the bus stop could definitely do with being moved up, although personally I'm thinking of changing from there, with the Oval Quarter now being filled, have gone from a 2 to 3, 4 max day wait for an appointment to 10 days when I phoned up last week. 10 days! It's no wonder some people end up going to A&E instead. What's even more frustrating, they're still accepting new patients. Shame really as the people there are lovely.

Herne Hill Rd Gp practice is ok.. if you're looking to move to somewhere really close maybe try them ? (just after soapy moos carwash, about 2 minutes walk from LJ station)

 

[teuchter]

The P5 does pass the Akerman health centre at the moment but only northbound, is that right?

It seems there was a consultation to reroute it southbound to pass there too but did that never happen?

Bus service proposal: route P5 - Transport for London - Citizen Space

 

[xsunnysuex]

Herne Hill Rd practice is great. Can always get an appointment.

 

[CH1]

Yes the bus stop could definitely do with being moved up, although personally I'm thinking of changing from there, with the Oval Quarter now being filled, have gone from a 2 to 3, 4 max day wait for an appointment to 10 days when I phoned up last week. 10 days! It's no wonder some people end up going to A&E instead. What's even more frustrating, they're still accepting new patients. Shame really as the people there are lovely.

I moved to the Corner Surgery 2 years ago. Same issue on appointments, but I have to say my own personal service improved somewhat since I put this compaint on the NHS Choices website. They even greet me by name now!

 

[CH1]

Herne Hill Rd practice is great. Can always get an appointment.

I left them after Dr Morell gave me a flu vaccination without even asking permission.

In my view that is an assault. However you know that when the BMA aren't organising strikes they are clearing GPs and other doctors of malpractice charges. No point whatever in complaining.

Probably Herne Hill Road surgery is the best for appointments, but I refuse to submit to that sort of carry on. During the 18 months I was there I had several good locum doctors I have to say.