Lost Prophets...

[butchersapron]

Actually. This is so not the right thread for this stuff. I'm stopping.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Also it might lead to a drop in the number of child abuse cases being reported, if it's someone's mum or dad that's abusing them they will feel bad enough if they end up sending them to prison, let alone getting them killed.

In fact "keeping it in the family" was and is effectively the policy many families where abuse by a family member was uncovered, actually used. What it tends to lead to is repeated abuse, and the psychological damage or destruction of the abuse victim.

 

[8ball]

300-400 years ago, we gave death sentences to minors for theft. Okay, the sentences were often (but not always) communted, but that's not really the point. How savage do we want to get, and as you say, how much power do we want to let the government wield over us?

You want to limit the power of the Govt?
Sounds like a bit of a 'libby' notion, that...

 

[ViolentPanda]

i call bullshit.

Royalties don't only include percentages from numbers of records sold, but publishing royalties too. As Watkins was the lyricist for many songs, as well as the singer of them, I've no doubt the figure includes those.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You want to limit the power of the Govt?
Sounds like a bit of a 'libby' notion, that...

I want to limit the power of any government to act outside of the interests - the explored and quantified interests - of the people that government purports to act for, if we have to be governed at all.

 

[8ball]

I want to limit the power of any government to act outside of the interests - the explored and quantified interests - of the people that government purports to act for, if we have to be governed at all.

I KNEW IT!!!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Of all the things that can get you disqualified from royalties I'd say noncery has got to be fairly high on the list

There's no legal mechanism to disqualify someone from receiving the "fruit of their labour" except the Proceeds of Crime act, and that only provides for seizure of monies and objects specifically proveable to be the proceeds or purchased by the proceeds of the criminal activity the person was convicted of.
I'm not sure that instituting such a provision to allow asset seizure for non-related crime is sensible, either. In the US it has sometimes led to police agencies manufacturing convictions.
Well, manufacturing them more than they already do, IYSWIM!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I KNEW IT!!!

I'm not a libertard. I'm an anarchist.

 

[killer b]

Royalties don't only include percentages from numbers of records sold, but publishing royalties too. As Watkins was the lyricist for many songs, as well as the singer of them, I've no doubt the figure includes those.

i know, but i'm still calling bullshit.

 

[8ball]

I'm not a libertard. I'm an anarchist.

Keep talking, Sonny Jim...

 

[ViolentPanda]

i know, but i'm still calling bullshit.

I certainly think it's a bit "out there" in terms of an estimate, given the size of their sales, and the fact that they seemed to have made a fair bit more from touring and merchandising than from royalties. I think he may have rolled merchandising income into that.

 

[8ball]

There's no legal mechanism to disqualify someone from receiving the "fruit of their labour" except the Proceeds of Crime act, and that only provides for seizure of monies and objects specifically proveable to be the proceeds or purchased by the proceeds of the criminal activity the person was convicted of.
I'm not sure that instituting such a provision to allow asset seizure for non-related crime is sensible, either. In the US it has sometimes led to police agencies manufacturing convictions.
Well, manufacturing them more than they already do, IYSWIM!

I think the idea of those who reckon he shouldn't get these royalties* might be if the coverage of your crime actually leads to increased earnings, then it would kick in (I've been trying to get some detail on what those people who say he shouldn't get royalties are thinking, but not much has been coming back).

I smell unforeseen consequences there too...

* - I agree morally speaking, he shouldn't, but morally speaking a whole lot of things in the world should be different

 

[killer b]

I certainly think it's a bit "out there" in terms of an estimate, given the size of their sales, and the fact that they seemed to have made a fair bit more from touring and merchandising than from royalties. I think he may have rolled merchandising income into that.

do you think merch sales will have been significant since his arrest? i find that... doubtful.

 

[Fez909]

The royalties thing is an irrelevance. It's going to make no difference to him, none to the victims, and won't make any of the people calling for it feel better for very long.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Keep talking, Sonny Jim...

do you think merch sales will have been significant since his arrest? i find that... doubtful.

I think that in some of their fan markets (south America, south-east Asia for example), where the story hasn't had the headline publicity it has here, the merch sales won't have been affected as badly as here.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The royalties thing is an irrelevance. It's going to make no difference to him, none to the victims, and won't make any of the people calling for it feel better for very long.

It may make a difference to the victims with reference to any future civil claims for damages.

 

[ddraig]

the bastard cheek of the dick applying to appeal sentence!
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ian-watkins-appeal-length-sentence-6557134

 

[tufty79]

Ugh.

 

[scalyboy]

the bastard cheek of the dick applying to appeal sentence!
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ian-watkins-appeal-length-sentence-6557134

I sometimes wonder whether lodging an appeal is part of the process that prisoners who've just been sentenced to a long term naturally go through, as part of their psychological acceptance of having to do their sentence. That's to say, they must know they have little chance of success, but go through the motions and try an appeal, before they accept they have to do the set time.

On the other hand, Watkins may be sufficiently warped as to genuinely believe he was harshly dealt with - didn't he say something like, he didn't see what all the fuss was about as "nobody got hurt"

 

[Teaboy]

Well he has nothing to lose whatsoever.

 

[Manter]

He's shown a total lack of remorse thus far, so the appeal isn't surprising.

 

[existentialist]

I sometimes wonder whether lodging an appeal is part of the process that prisoners who've just been sentenced to a long term naturally go through, as part of their psychological acceptance of having to do their sentence. That's to say, they must know they have little chance of success, but go through the motions and try an appeal, before they accept they have to do the set time.

On the other hand, Watkins may be sufficiently warped as to genuinely believe he was harshly dealt with - didn't he say something like, he didn't see what all the fuss was about as "nobody got hurt"

I notice that the man who killed April Jones had also lodged an appeal against the length of his sentence, but withdrew it before the appeal went to the court.

I think you're probably right, and the other thing is that if they have been given a very, very long sentence, they have little to lose by appealing it, given that the scope for increasing it at appeal is pretty limited.

I suspect, too, that in some cases, it's perhaps about remaining in the public eye - it must be starting to dawn on them that the peak of their notoriety has passed, and the sheer drudgery of a very long prison sentence lies ahead.

 

[Giles]

Maybe soon he will give up on pointless appeals and start thinking about ripping up his bed sheets to make himself a rope.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I notice that the man who killed April Jones had also lodged an appeal against the length of his sentence, but withdrew it before the appeal went to the court.

I think you're probably right, and the other thing is that if they have been given a very, very long sentence, they have little to lose by appealing it, given that the scope for increasing it at appeal is pretty limited.

I suspect, too, that in some cases, it's perhaps about remaining in the public eye - it must be starting to dawn on them that the peak of their notoriety has passed, and the sheer drudgery of a very long prison sentence lies ahead.

I wouldn't discount the inlfluence of silver-tongued lawyers wanting to make more money either.

 

[existentialist]

Maybe soon he will give up on pointless appeals and start thinking about ripping up his bed sheets to make himself a rope.

This is always a fraught argument, what with the cost of keeping someone in prison, etc., but, personally, I'd prefer that he has as long as possible of his natural lifespan available to him to reflect on the horror of what he has done, and inflicted on others. A quick breathless wriggle on the end of a few strips of sheet would deprive him of that opportunity.

 

[D'wards]

Do we have any Lost Prophets fans on these here boards?

Doubtful i know, but if they are, do you still listen to their music?

Gary Glitter did some great knees-up music, but i bet he doesn't get played at too many parties anymore, although i'm sure many people do still listen to him.

And what is the criteria for airbrushing someones music from history, what behaviour are you guilty of before that happens? Paedophilia may be the only thing i think, and then its shades of grey.

I personally never listen to any artists who ever took illegal drugs. Just me Cliff cds then...

 

[skyscraper101]

Do we have any Lost Prophets fans on these here boards?

Doubtful i know, but if they are, do you still listen to their music?

Gary Glitter did some great knees-up music, but i bet he doesn't get played at too many parties anymore, although i'm sure many people do still listen to him.

I genuinely do love that track 'Town Called Hypocrisy' and in fairness the rest of the band deserve equal credit for that tune so I'm not going to stop liking it just because of Watkins. I feel pretty sorry that they will have had their livelihoods damaged because of him so, yeah.

Glitter still gets loads of royalties. In the US, Rock and Roll Part 1 (or 2) was a hit and but not many people know who he is so it inevitably gets radio play and licensed for the occasional ad or whatever. I was in CVS pharmacy a few weeks ago and that track was playing over the in-store radio. I've heard it in movies too. He must earn a fair bit from it even if the UK has shunned him somewhat.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I sometimes wonder whether lodging an appeal is part of the process that prisoners who've just been sentenced to a long term naturally go through, as part of their psychological acceptance of having to do their sentence. That's to say, they must know they have little chance of success, but go through the motions and try an appeal, before they accept they have to do the set time.

On the other hand, Watkins may be sufficiently warped as to genuinely believe he was harshly dealt with - didn't he say something like, he didn't see what all the fuss was about as "nobody got hurt"

Appealing is usually fueled by one of three things:

1) Ego - the assumption that you're right and the legal professionals are wrong
2) an actual point of law (unusual)
3) a cold calculation that an appeal will trim your sentence.

3 can be dangerous, as unless you've been given a maximum allowable tariff, the appeal court can jack your sentence upward.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well he has nothing to lose whatsoever.

Not quite true. Appealing his sentence puts him in the public eye again. That may well mean extra unwanted attention from fellow inmates.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Maybe soon he will give up on pointless appeals and start thinking about ripping up his bed sheets to make himself a rope.

TBF, the sheets are shite, it's often the blankets* that are used.

*Wool, and reputedly left over from WW1 (legend has it they're actually old cavalry horse-blankets). HM Prison Service has a bloody great warehouse full of bedding.