London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[scifisam]

He's a particularly crap troll. Doesn't even rile anyone up properly. Too obvious.

Cobbles, seriously, go have some real fun somewhere. It's a bit sad.

He is so crap that he hasn't even managed to get banned yet. But people respond to his posts - don't they realise they're responding to some sadsack stinking of pavement fags and unwashed clothes who spends the rest of his time ranting out loud as he stands outside the off-licence in the morning waiting for it to open? Then shouts racist abuse at the local kids walking to school, but they ignore him because even they pity him?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The people who say "violent protests achieve nothing" would do well to remember the example of the Suffragettes and how they achieved votes for women.

Or the poll tax riots.

 

[London_Calling]

"Violent protest" did for Thatcher within 7 months or so.

It's a great shame yesterday isn't seen more as a response to the extreme violence committed by the Etonians and friends on the life-chances of so many teenagers; people were defending themselves yesterday - and, generally speaking, in proportion.

 

[kavenism]

The book shields worked really well. Expect to see a lot more of them

They were ace. Best work out Adorno's had in a while!

 

[chilango]

These protests haven't even been that violent yet.

Not really. Not even by recent UK standards.

It's just every minor thing is captured from a million camera angles and instantly broadcast.

 

[TopCat]

Police project the power of the government and get totally fucked over.

 

[London_Calling]

. . while themselves being cut by 25%.

 

[rekil]

The one smashing someone in the kneecaps, when they're already backing off with their hands in the air? (about 1:27?)

1.29 - how can that be justified? Fucking pig twat.

That's the one. There's always one bad apple isn't there. Btw, I suspect that the horse which trampled its copper "bumped into" the stable door a few times last night.

 

[xes]

This may have been asked, but when was the last time a peaceful protest actually got a decent reult?

 

[London_Calling]

No idea, but I'm not sure the shires can get too upset given the invasion of Parliament by the Countryside Alliance.

 

[dennisr]

Paul Mason's comments are worth reading, certainly fits in with what I saw:
"it is unprecedented to see a government teeter before a movement in whom the iconic voices are sixteen and seventeen year old women, and whose anthems are mainly dubstep."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/2010/12/9122010_dubstep_rebellion_-_br.html

"Any idea that you are dealing with Lacan-reading hipsters from Spitalfields on this demo is mistaken. While a good half of the march was undergraduates from the most militant college occupations - UCL, SOAS, Leeds, Sussex - the really stunning phenomenon, politically, was the presence of youth: bainlieue-style youth from Croydon, Peckam, the council estates of Islington.

Having been very close to the front line of the fighting, on the protesters side, I would say that at its height - again - it broke the media stereotype of being organised by "political groups": there was an anarchist black bloc contingent, there were the socialist left groups - but above all, again, I would say the main offensive actions taken to break through police lines were done by small groups of young men who dressed a lot more like the older brothers of the dubsteppers. The fighting itself is still going on - I am seeing people break the windows of HM Revenue and Customs live on TV. At one point after 2pm there were just two lines of riot cops between the students and parliament and it was at this point, with nowhere to go, that people began to push forward and attack the police. Despite that, those involved were a minority and it was fairly "ritual" involving placard sticks and the remains of the metal fence around Parliament Square, until people realised there was nowhere to break through *to* and changed direction."

 

[Treacle Toes]

Young men, mainly black, grabbed each other around the head and formed a surging dance to the digital beat lit, as the light failed, by the distinctly analog light of a bench they had set on fire.

 

[London_Calling]

tbf, we already know Disco Dave has no bollocks and the only thing keeping him upright is Osbourne.

 

[Pickman's model]

y'all know it's going to kick perhaps today but certainly tomorrow.

nice to be proved right

 

[JimW]

I've been posting that all over the shop too, dennisr. Fair play to him

 

[dennisr]

What we are seeing is finally the arrival of tens of thousands of people who are willing to act together for themselves independently of institutions and the student union which is now virtually irrelevant. Congratulations to those in the thick of things, and the rest of the ‘radicals’/ 'ultra left' were noticeable by their absence, off the pace as usual & completely unable to participate in a movement.

What are you talking about you riot porn wank over. Stop trying to fit your readymade theories to something that happened 200 miles from were you were mr 'participator'. The event was the result of organising activities of lefts, activists and radicals. It didn't appear out of thin air.
Jezeus when are you ejets going to stop fantasising and start recognising what is actually happening on the ground

 

[Citizen66]

I can't get my head around the muppets that are the old bill. Are they not arsed about the diminished life chances of their own progeny?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Anyone aware of how far Anarchists are involved in this? Id have thought sit-in's would be the perfect opportunity to get involved with uni students?

 

[dennisr]

I've been posting that all over the shop too, dennisr. Fair play to him

Yep, it is the most accurate assessment I've seen of the crowds composition and actions.

 

[Pickman's model]

What are you talking about you riot porn wank over. Stop trying to fit your readymade theories to something that happened 200 miles from were you were mr 'participator'. The event was the result of organising activities of lefts, activists and radicals. It didn't appear out of thin air.
Jezeus when are you ejets going to stop fantasising and start recognising what is actually happening on the ground

denniss - it's the tbh equivalent of the penchant for some leftsists to fetishise social movements on the other side of the world.

 

[dennisr]

denniss - it's the tbh equivalent of the penchant for some leftsists to fetishise social movements on the other side of the world.

yep, agreed

 

[gentlegreen]

I hope you wevolutionawies realise that the UK's actual, genuine working classes almost certainly want nothing to do with your wevolution ?

Not in my name for a start and I'm a worker - at least as defined in "Marxism 101" - and as I have said before, my own job is potentially on the line.
My own Union encouraged us to attend an earlier demo - I will be asking my shop steward what Unison's view is about what happened yesterday.

 

[teuchter]

This may have been asked, but when was the last time a peaceful protest actually got a decent reult?

Arguably, this one got some sort of result -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11508226

Initial threats of a 25% cut were scaled back to a freeze on funding.

I think it's very difficult to say how much effect peaceful protests can have. You can never know what would have happened without the protest taking place.

As far as the current protests are concerned - I don't have an objection to a bit of "violence" as long as it's against property rather than people.

I'm not sure the whole argument about garnering public support is as clear cut as many here like to think it is. Yes of course the violence etc gets the protest more coverage. I'm sure it does turn a significant number of people away from supporting the demos, though, particularly with the way it's reported in the mainstream news etc. Whether that matters is another question of course.

What is perhaps significant about these fees protests is that a lot of people attending them (as far as I can make out) aren't your usual activist sorts. Lots of well-to-do kids/students with well-to-do parents who will hear their accounts of what actually happened; the whole kettling thing etc. Maybe a certain segment of the population will question things a bit more than they usually would.

I do think it's important for the protests, violent or otherwise, to be backed up with a strong effort to present the arguments against the fees increases and the cuts generally, in an objective way, thoroughly backed up with the relevant numbers and so on. That's the way to counter the tendency for many to see the protests and think, it's a bunch of students making a kneejerk reaction to proposals that aren't actually that bad when you look calmly at the details (as per the line being pushed by Cable/Nick Clegg).

I know that many don't think that the views of the middle classes are really relevant in all this - but, well, I do and I think there's a good opportunity at this moment to get more of them on side which I hope won't be wasted.

 

[London_Calling]

Mason's just being true to his own roots; former Trot and son of a lorry driver.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hope you wevolutionawies realise that the UK's actual, genuine working classes almost certainly want nothing to do with your wevolution ?

Not in my name for a start and I'm a worker - at least as defined in "Marxism 101" - and as I have said before, my own job is potentially on the line.
My own Union encouraged us to attend an earlier demo - I will be asking my shop steward what Unison's view is about what happened yesterday.

you do know solidarity cuts both ways, don't you?

 

[Proper Tidy]

I've been to a few of these demos, although not yesterday, and the kids are overwhelmingly working class, many from the poorest backgrounds. I'm unconvinced by the media narrative of these being 'middle class kids'. Seems to me the definition of middle class is being stretched ever tighter. I am yet to meet a middle class kid who gives a fuck about EMA.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I think I may have to draft a letter of complaint to the BBC over their biased reporting. It's been disgraceful. They have

1. ignored the fact that the EMA is to be scrapped
2. Focussed solely on tuition fees and ignored the fact that the protests are about CUTS
3. Ignored police aggression and laid the blame on protesters.
4. Failed to question police tactics during the demo
5. 44 protester were injured and 12 coppers. How many of those injured protesters were victims of police violence?
6. Students who are interviewed in the studio are always asked "do you condone the violence"? It's an invitation to provocation.

Remember, the BBC's reporting of the Battle of Orgreave Colliery was entirely fabricated. The BBC also showed old footage of celebrating Palestinians in the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks and presented it as current.

Ironically, ABC News had more balance than the BBC

It has been dreadful, but I'm actually not surprised (that's not to say complaints shouldn't be made, of course).

Every protester I saw interviewed by Ben Bradshaw on the BBC yesterday started by talking about the police violence, many citing examples they'd witnessed. I don't remember it being followed up on, but the pat question "why are you here today?" being trundled out time and again.

It's a disgrace.

*gets out green pen*

 

[ddraig]

I hope you wevolutionawies realise that the UK's actual, genuine working classes almost certainly want nothing to do with your wevolution ?

Not in my name for a start and I'm a worker - at least as defined in "Marxism 101" - and as I have said before, my own job is potentially on the line.
My own Union encouraged us to attend an earlier demo - I will be asking my shop steward what Unison's view is about what happened yesterday.

nunison are apathetic shower and doing nothing down here, "there is a demo in march" (yes next year) is the shit answer you will get
they refuse to back or even publicise cuts meetings and peaceful marches down here and can't even be arsed to have a branch banner on an anti public sector cuts march from a to b
uterrly pathetic, weak and pandering to politicians
not good enough

 

[Santino]

I've been to a few of these demos, although not yesterday, and the kids are overwhelmingly working class, many from the poorest backgrounds. I'm unconvinced by the media narrative of these being 'middle class kids'. Seems to me the definition of middle class is being stretched ever tighter. I am yet to meet a middle class kid who gives a fuck about EMA.

Middle class is a much abused term, often stretching to include anyone who doesn't live on a decaying council estate, right up to millionaire business owners who aren't actually landed gentry.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think I may have to draft a letter of complaint to the BBC over their biased reporting. It's been disgraceful. They have

1. ignored the fact that the EMA is to be scrapped
2. Focussed solely on tuition fees and ignored the fact that the protests are about CUTS
3. Ignored police aggression and laid the blame on protesters.
4. Failed to question police tactics during the demo
5. 44 protester were injured and 12 coppers. How many of those injured protesters were victims of police violence?
6. Students who are interviewed in the studio are always asked "do you condone the violence"? It's an invitation to provocation.

Remember, the BBC's reporting of the Battle of Orgreave Colliery was entirely fabricated. The BBC also showed old footage of celebrating Palestinians in the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks and presented it as current.

Ironically, ABC News had more balance than the BBC

the other issue you're missing is that this only applies to english students, not to for example the welsh.