London Anarchist Bookfair 2023/24

[LDC]

Anyhow, these arguments erupting into violence or threats of violence started way before the rise of identity politics.

Yes of course, but at least people used to face consequences sometimes. Now rarely so, you can say destructive political shit anonymously on social media and rarely do you get any actual repercussions, maybe a nasty Tweet back sometimes.

 

[cesare]

View attachment 393959

Similarly the AF account posted this as part of a thread by the London Bookfair restating who was attending (and posting a new image without ACG).

Lovely.

How did the Bookfair respond to the deadly insult of being compared to Stalin?

 

[cesare]

Yes of course, but at least people used to face consequences sometimes. Now rarely so, you can say destructive political shit anonymously on social media and rarely do you get any actual repercussions, maybe a nasty Tweet back sometimes.

I had the impression (perhaps wrongly, if so correct me) that these aren't just people that got hold of a password and posted shit up - that they're actually people that a few of you know exactly who they are and can decide yourselves on the consequences?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

How did the Bookfair respond to the deadly insult of being compared to Stalin?

Well they have not responded and the AF have now deleted that tweet in the last few minutes. (Hello AF! You fucking weirdos).

 

[cesare]

Well they have not responded and the AF have now deleted that tweet in the last few minutes. (Hello AF! You fucking weirdos).

Probably wanted to keep their stall

 

[LDC]

I had the impression (perhaps wrongly, if so correct me) that these aren't just people that got hold of a password and posted shit up - that they're actually people that a few of you know exactly who they are and can decide yourselves on the consequences?

I know none of the London Bookfair people now, and nobody in the AF. And some of the people commenting and whipping up grief are just randoms on twitter, absolutely no clue who they are. But equally I wouldn't want this to be individualised into a punch or 2 thrown between people at the bookfair. This needs some collective response IMO, a meeting and people called to account for what they did and why etc. But we can't do this, which is partly why I think it's fucked with no solutions, and in part why I've abandoned anarchist and activist circles.

 

[LDC]

And it's no real surprise that people who've had a particularly shitty times of things might be drawn to a movement that seeks radical change. How to manage that is probably a fruitful discussion, dismissing it as just identity politics probably isn't.

Also... great then where is this discussion about how to manage it? Because I've not seen any attempts to try in the last years, nor even any desire to. The few times I've seen it attempted in the past with individuals it's been a spectacular failure, the idea we could deal with a current of destructive and dysfunctional behaviour that's broader and tied to people's political outlook and also mostly online is a dream if you ask me.

And FWIW it's not tied just to identity politics, I think some elements of the insurrectionist crowd have been particularly terrible as well, although with much fewer people and impact.

 

[danny la rouge]

I had the impression (perhaps wrongly, if so correct me) that these aren't just people that got hold of a password and posted shit up - that they're actually people that a few of you know exactly who they are and can decide yourselves on the consequences?

I don’t know who runs the Bristol AF TwitterX. I have an idea who might run the national AF TwitterX, although I have never met the person, and don’t know their real name or where they’re based. I have met one person I believe to be on the London Bookfair Collective.

As for “deciding consequences”, I don’t really know what that means. I don’t share any activism circles with any of those people. I don’t attend London Bookfairs, never have, extremely unlikely ever to do so. I literally have nothing in common with AFed members. I don’t even own a unicycle.

 

[Serge Forward]

I remember back in the day sitting in meetings with people so off their face they could barely speak. I might even have been one of them on occassion. Let's not pretend this is a new phenomena, it just looks a bit different because times change.

And it's no real surprise that people who've had a particularly shitty times of things might be drawn to a movement that seeks radical change. How to manage that is probably a fruitful discussion, dismissing it as just identity politics probably isn't.

You're right, aggro and assorted idiocy has always been around but this new stuff feels different. Years ago people kicked off, settled scores, got off their faces and became a nuisance but then it was over the next day.

These days it's all the post-truth, make up any old shit to discredit and get others to hate those you don't like. Trump style social media is the modus operandi and it's fucking awful.

Serious groups like the ACG, Anarcom and others would do well to place a firm distance between themselves and the self-discrediting anarcho scene.

 

[chilango]

You're right, aggro and assorted idiocy has always been around but this new stuff feels different. Years ago people kicked off, settled scores, got off their faces and became a nuisance but then it was over the next day.

These days it's all the post-truth, make up any old shit to discredit and get others to hate those you don't like. Trump style social media is the modus operandi and it's fucking awful.

Serious groups like the ACG, Anarcom and others would do well to place a firm distance between themselves and the self-discrediting anarcho scene.

Might be time to shelve the "A" word for a bit and use the "L". Bit of clear water.

 

[nogojones]

Might be time to shelve the "A" word for a bit and use the "L". Bit of clear water.

Liberal?

 

[JimW]

Libertarian seems to have been lost to the dark side.

 

[Serge Forward]

Might be time to shelve the "A" word for a bit and use the "L". Bit of clear water.

Aye but agree with JimW too.

 

[JimW]

The book I'm doing mentions the Taiwanese Black Youth League, inspired by Japanese anarchists with a similar name during the colonial period, but obviously that's going to get understood differently at first blush now too.

 

[Serge Forward]

A lot of us are hardly what you'd call youthful.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

We were at one Bookfair where one of the libcom admins was attacked a few feet away, and another libcom stalwart made himself sensibly scarce as he was the target. I think that was the Bookfair phildwyer visited. Anyhow, these arguments erupting into violence or threats of violence started way before the rise of identity politics.

Maybe he wasnt making himself scarce but just checking his Trust Fund value?

 

[JimW]

A lot of us are hardly what you'd call youthful.

BAC instead of ABC - Black Age Concern

 

[Lurdan]

Might be time to shelve the "A" word for a bit and use the "L". Bit of clear water.

Sounds good. Of course the L word isn't "libertarian" — it's "love (l.u.v)".

 

[cesare]

Maybe he wasnt making himself scarce but just checking his Trust Fund value?

Lol but I don't think a trust fund applies in his case. There's plenty of them around though.

 

[cesare]

The book I'm doing mentions the Taiwanese Black Youth League, inspired by Japanese anarchists with a similar name during the colonial period, but obviously that's going to get understood differently at first blush now too.

No opportunities for daft tweets in the colonial period I'm guessing.

 

[chilango]

Libertarian seems to have been lost to the dark side.

I think given the alternatives I'll take my chances!

 

[danny la rouge]

Lol but I don't think a trust fund applies in his case. There's plenty of them around though.

You mean they don’t have anarchist wages?

 

[JimW]

No opportunities for daft tweets in the colonial period I'm guessing.

There's loads of mass meetings instead in this. Also several splits, some quite acrimonious, so that's not changed!

 

[cesare]

You mean they don’t have anarchist wages?

Wages for anarchy work. Frenetically typing edgy tweets.

 

[cesare]

Any member of the public might take their phone and ask an AFED stall holder if they typed those ridiculous tweets EG "was this you? What fucking genocide lol"

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Anarchism seems mostly white in the UK. Or are they referring to fashion choices?

 

[cesare]

Anarchism seems mostly white in the UK. Or are they referring to fashion choices?

Most of the crustied dreadlocked with dogs on strings are white tbf.

 

[cesare]

"a political fall out that affects literally tens of people"

 

[kenny g]

Wages for anarchy work. Frenetically typing edgy tweets.

Sounds like in effect the equivalent of the disruption done by the SpyCops in previous decades.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I was thinking of infiltration. But then that’s accusations without evidence so didn’t mention it.