London Anarchist Bookfair 2023/24

[LDC]

You would prefer the blow-by-blow published for the benefit of an "ACG are genocide apologists" treatment perhaps?

Come on, it would be pretty easy to say something explaining why the banning. They did this, their collective position on this is unacceptable because of XYZ, etc. etc.

Given the background to all this over the last years it's really irresponsible to publish such a vague statement, especially give the history of the ACG and the Bookfair. And yes tbh, I have my doubts they can justify banning an entire group because of some 'dis-unity' within the group that became public due to leaked internal chats.

And I have said I'm totally willing to think it was the right decision if shown the reasoning.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I imagine they applauded Auschwitz or something.
But probably didn’t.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

You would prefer the blow-by-blow published for the benefit of an "ACG are genocide apologists" treatment perhaps? Judging what you say and don't with this stuff is a nightmare.

The problem I have, Rob, is that I went to an ACG meeting a few years back with a trans friend of mine. Obviously nothing bad happened to her and we both enjoyed it.

As far as I know we are both quite sceptical of the Bookfair's judgement on this one but it does raise questions about whether either of us would attend future ACG meetings.

Clearly there is some information we are not party to.

I don't really know how that can be resolved but it does amplify the view that a significant part of the anarchist scene is a subculture based on gossip rather than a serious political movement. Which is depressing and demotivating.

 

[danny la rouge]

I don't really know how that can be resolved but it does amplify the view that a significant part of the anarchist scene is a subculture based on gossip rather than a serious political movement. Which is depressing and demotivating.

Precisely.

 

[hitmouse]

And also how Urbanites are primed to interpret things. Like generally we're quite in favour of whistleblowing on bad behaviour, no?

Hello, is this the media? I would like to whistleblow on some bad behaviour. The details? Oh, I don't really know any of the details, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing someone else say that something had happened, I think. There you go, proper serious bit of whistleblowing done there.

 

[LDC]

Peace News have a stall, and they've published some articles I think are actually pretty shit politics on trans stuff, so it's hard not to see this in part as some ACG dislike.

And they're not even anarchists or an anarchist project ffs!

 

[cesare]

Yeah, it's a good point. But so did the Bookfair until 2017. A combination of the organisers and their politics and perspective on the Bookfair and what it is, and some of dynamics around anarchism generally.

There were issues before 2017 tbf, and there's been a change of management.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

If it’s AFed doing the ‘whistle blowing’ then surely it’s splitter beef that’s been happening since, well, the split.

 

[cesare]

You would prefer the blow-by-blow published for the benefit of an "ACG are genocide apologists" treatment perhaps? Judging what you say and don't with this stuff is a nightmare.

I'm confused as to whether this "no stall for the ACG" in reaction to the Bookfair (edit, sorry) originally permitting a stall this year, revolves around ACG's position on Ukraine/genocide etc and/or position on trans.

 

[hitmouse]

I think it mostly relates to the bookfair collective's position on not wanting to get shouted at on twitter.

 

[cesare]

I think it mostly relates to the bookfair collective's position on not wanting to get shouted at on twitter.

Exactly I think, they used twitter as a litmus paper and didn't take into account people that would actually turn up in person (rather than haterz gonna hate fact-light twitter shit spewed across the internet) and perhaps demand answers.

 

[planetgeli]

I think the loaded gun is more like a loaded water pistol

 

[LDC]

...revolves around ACG's position on Ukraine/genocide...

That's a phrase I never thought I'd read.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think the loaded gun is more like a loaded water pistol

Nah, it can turn ugly.

 

[LDC]

I think it mostly relates to the bookfair collective's position on not wanting to get shouted at on twitter.

I think that's the most factual post on here tbh.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And they avoid here.

 

[Serge Forward]

I think the loaded gun is more like a loaded water pistol

Loaded gun or water pistol, the ACG is well away from the decaying and self-destructive anarchist "scene" (it's hardly a movement). At least in this country.

 

[chilango]

Unless there's some clearly damning and verifiable evidence that the ACG - as an organisation - have done/said something beyond the pale (e.g. deliberate transphobia) then I can't see any credible political justification for excluding a nationally organised mainstream Anarchist group from an anarchist bookfair. Especially when non-anarchist projects are given space.

That should be the simple position of a serious operation.

Equally, if there is verifiable evidence of the ACG - again, as an organisation - engaging in hehaviour beyond the pale then the movement needs to know, with clarity, what this is.

Again, this should be the simple position of a serious operation.

Anything else, trading upon hearsay, interpretation and so on is the hallmark of a deeply unserious movement.

 

[Rob Ray]

Hello, is this the media? I would like to whistleblow on some bad behaviour. The details? Oh, I don't really know any of the details, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing someone else say that something had happened, I think. There you go, proper serious bit of whistleblowing done there.

But they aren't The Media, are they. They're a bookfair group comprised of half a dozen people trying to manage a major event ...

The problem I have, Rob ...

... of which I am not and have never been a member, and have made it very clear I'm not representing them. I do have some sympathy for fallible people trying to navigate the impossible minefield of too little/too much information on a subject that is basically a gigantic unwanted pain in the arse in which every gabby fucker wants to have their say, occurring while you're trying to get shit done. I actually have a lot of sympathy with that, because Freedom's had to do it repeatedly.

 

[planetgeli]

I think the loaded gun is more like a loaded water pistol

This is what I meant.

Unless there's some clearly damning and verifiable evidence that the ACG - as an organisation - have done/said something beyond the pale (e.g. deliberate transphobia) then I can't see any credible political justification for excluding a nationally organised mainstream Anarchist group from an anarchist bookfair. Especially when non-anarchist projects are given space.

That should be the simple position of a serious operation.

Equally, if there is verifiable evidence of the ACG - again, as an organisation - engaging in hehaviour beyond the pale then the movement needs to know, with clarity, what this is.

Again, this should be the simple position of a serious operation.

Anything else, trading upon hearsay, interpretation and so on is the hallmark of a deeply unserious movement.

 

[LDC]

I do have some sympathy for fallible people trying to navigate the impossible minefield of too little/too much information on a subject that is basically a gigantic unwanted pain in the arse in which every gabby fucker wants to have their say, occurring while you're trying to get shit done. I actually have a lot of sympathy with that, because Freedom's had to do it repeatedly.

I have some sympathy for that as well. But given how some people absolutely brutally laid into the Bookfair collective of 2017, and this Bookfair has come out of the ruins of that decades long successful project that was destroyed by the politics and behaviour of some, and this new Bookfair has in some ways painted itself as better, then my sympathy is quite limited. (And that's assuming none of the people in the Bookfair collective now weren't any of the people who behaved so terribly, or who supported that behaviour, then.)

 

[Rob Ray]

Aye well I never suggested the 2017 bookfair collective were showered with roses. It's pretty much the most thankless task in the scene.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

But they aren't The Media, are they. They're a bookfair group comprised of half a dozen people trying to manage a major event ...


... of which I am not and have never been a member, and have made it very clear I'm not representing them. I do have some sympathy for fallible people trying to navigate the impossible minefield of too little/too much information on a subject that is basically a gigantic unwanted pain in the arse in which every gabby fucker wants to have their say, occurring while you're trying to get shit done. I actually have a lot of sympathy with that, because Freedom's had to do it repeatedly.

I do appreciate this and part of my frustration is precisely that the Bookfair seems to be caving in to pressure on twitter from people who presumably won't attend the event.

Without hauling over old coals I did actually offer my time to both the old collective when the shit went down in 2017 and answered the call to action for the new one when that was being put together. I did that secure in the knowledge that running the bookfair is a thankless task. For better or worse nothing came of it...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I do think Helen Steel shouldn’t have used 2017 as a platform for the GC/Trans debate. Everything since are the follow on tremors of that move.

 

[LDC]

Aye well I never suggested the 2017 bookfair collective were showered with roses. It's pretty much the most thankless task in the scene.

Worse than the Freedom bookshop toilet cleaner?

I dunno thought, for years most people I know loved the London Bookfair collective and were really grateful for all the work that went into it; they made huge efforts on venue, childcare and a wide range of meetings, films and workshops.

 

[Rob Ray]

Hey our toilet is pretty decent these days, we even finished tiling it! Said tiler also wanted to tidy the stickers off the door but nostalgists won out there.

 

[Wilf]

Is this bad behaviour though, or is it some internal discussion by some members of a group around a difficult topic on which there's no absolute agreement on some areas of it, and holding any of those views is still consistent with being an anti-State & anti-capitalist anarchist revolutionary?

A statement from the Bookfair would be useful. You would think anyone with any sense would know this would be disruptive and controversial would make their reasons for doing it very clear to the movement.

I think this is perhaps the most depressing bit, what it says about the bookfair organisers sense of the movement.

I'll start off with some qualifications, as touched on upthread. Yes, there was never a bookfair without spats and divisions. Yes also, in terms of the idea of this becoming the middle aged and older doing generational moaning about the young, mea culpa on that. Another point, the bookfair isn't an annual conference, convention, summit organisation. It's a book sale, chance to meet up and a series of meetings. But actually, that piss up-booksale-series of meetings was quite important, particularly if you lived somewhere isolated. It was an important part and reflection of the movement. And here's a word, there was a certain 'responsibility' that came with the hard work of putting it on, even while you might have your own positions, spats et al.

What pisses me off most is that with last year's refusals to even respond to the ACG and then this year's cat and mouse, you've got the organisers acting like some kind of 1950s moralist come disappointed school teacher. All the stuff about 'you've made progress but then you let yourself down'... astonishing and patronising. It feels lazy saying this is id pols, but that's a big part of it. Laying down lines and ownership and then judging people. Trans people and allies have been hurt and offended by plenty on the left, but how do we get from there to re-banning a group on the basis that some in the ACG are not fully on board? I'd hazard a guess that whatever those ACG members have said isn't all that great or we'd have heard about it.. But.... tldr.... what does this suggest about the bookfair organisers view of the movement? How does this relate to any kind of class struggle?

 

[cesare]

I have no idea why anyone's fighting over rescuing it. Just let it go.

 

[Wilf]

But they aren't The Media, are they. They're a bookfair group comprised of half a dozen people trying to manage a major event ...


... of which I am not and have never been a member, and have made it very clear I'm not representing them. I do have some sympathy for fallible people trying to navigate the impossible minefield of too little/too much information on a subject that is basically a gigantic unwanted pain in the arse in which every gabby fucker wants to have their say, occurring while you're trying to get shit done. I actually have a lot of sympathy with that, because Freedom's had to do it repeatedly.

I can agree with that generally, but the organisers reaction to the ACG is not a random issue that has come out of the blue. The decisions to ban last year, to unban this year and then re-ban are, as far as I can see, actions initiated/undertaken by the organisers.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I have no idea why anyone's fighting over rescuing it. Just let it go.

Where else would I worry about potentially getting my head kicked in?