Well you say that, but they knew Liz Truss was a headbanger, and they let her go for months on end, proving precisely that, before punting it to their brain dead membership - knowing what would happen. We had a whole fucking summer of her proving how unsuited she was, and Britannia Unchained was published years ago - she was always open about who she was and what she'd do. They could've rigged it differently at any point, but they chose not to intervene.
Liz Truss’s time is up
- Thread starter Dogsauce
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
bimble
floofy
yup. Perversely just went to see what sort of despair is being voiced on the conservative home website, and apparently a Mordaunt-Sunak palace coup is one of the less mad ideas that are floating about in the panicky corridors of power.
It's now more likely than not that the mini-Budget will be withdrawn and that the Chancellor may have to go | Conservative Home
Some Tory members would see such a development as nothing less than an establishment coup: as a conspiracy of bad actors working together to win revenge for Brexit.
conservativehome.com
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
If you want to bet on a further move right then I'd think Badenoch would be where to put your money.
I don't think it will happen because most Tory MPs will be looking for damage limitation not 'forging ahead with a radical new agenda' (or however they choose to dress it up).
That said, I'm sure there are some racing heartbeats and wide eyed reveries over at Spike/IoI; nearly three decades on from 'Preparing for Power' Frank and his children can't help but dream.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
I don't see where the confidence in them suddenly coming to their senses comes from. It flies in the face of all evidence. They don't care if someone's fucking mad and/or bad, as long as they don't fuck up the economy. That's why Liz Truss got in such a mess so fast. If she hadn't spooked the markets and cost the country so dearly, we'd be all set for several years of her, and Braverman as Home Secretary, and Rees Mogg doing whatever the fuck he does with high office, and all the rest of her nutcase choices - and much of the electorate would be fine with it.
ska invita
back on the other side
I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but if a bunch of Classical Liberalists take charge you think they will increase regulation and retreat from or undo privatisation? I cant see it, whatever they may have learned about social contracts at oxbridge
Sorry, but it's the mad idea that Braverman - who managed to secure the backing of a tiny number of MPs in the recent leadership election - would be ushered into the leadership by the same MPs now that flies in the face of all evidence.
It's not my idea, I just fully agree with the concept that someone along those lines is far more likely than not. Hope is not evidence. The hope that they won't scrape their substantial barrel of horror even deeper is almost certainly misplaced.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
yup. Perversely just went to see what sort of despair is being voiced on the conservative home website, and apparently a Mordaunt-Sunak palace coup is one of the less mad ideas that are floating about in the panicky corridors of power.
It's now more likely than not that the mini-Budget will be withdrawn and that the Chancellor may have to go | Conservative Home
Some Tory members would see such a development as nothing less than an establishment coup: as a conspiracy of bad actors working together to win revenge for Brexit.
It's worth having a quick read of the sack of cats that is currently Conservative Home. A party that deeply split on various fault lines, is going to find it very hard to regroup convincingly and quickly.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Yes. And in addition to their problems with regrouping potential, their splits mean they are equally as unlikely to make productive, moderate choices, regardless of what anyone might hope.
Where's hope come into it?
In hoping that they'll moderate rather than fuck up further.
bimble
floofy
I don't think they're that likely to remove Truss, probably just leave her there as a sort of sacrificial figurehead for the time being at least, whilst underneath doing everything they can to win back the international money markets/ stave off a total economic binfire, so every policy she's announced so far binned etc.
Oh right - I'm not doing that. I'm just looking at the balance of power and support the likely candidates have in the parliamentary party, and Braverman doesn't have any.
Yes, I agree. She's there until they can figure out a way to ditch her without doing even more damage, or ditching their own rules and regulations so blatantly when they didn't before. That might be next week, it might be next year. It suits them better than anything else right now to have her soak up the worst of it.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
It does seem like the quiet men/women in suits are just going to slot someone up for replacement next time. Which is the sensible approach, it’s the farcical members vote that got us truss so much better to avoid that even remote fig leaf of democracy.
Hopefully some frothing loon will put name on ballot and spoil any quiet anointment of a leader and we can get a good meaty fight out of it.
Hopefully some frothing loon will put name on ballot and spoil any quiet anointment of a leader and we can get a good meaty fight out of it.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Quite right. At the peak of ‘classic’ liberalism there was little state intervention or welfare state. The social contract was upheld through philanthropy and a healthy dose of violence.
Well, at the time, we were talking about the direction of capital, not politics. Certainly, my little sector of capital has well and truly shifted from a very neoliberal mindset to a far more classical liberal one over the 25 years I have been working in it. The fact that politics has moved in a different direction probably reflects the disconnect between capital and the populace. Basically, there is a tendency for people in these discussions to treat capital power and political power as the same group, but they are different institutions within society. They both have a lot of ability to influence events but in both cases, this runs up against limits. And they have a (very) large alignment of interests but these do, nevertheless, sometimes clash. Perhaps most crucially of all, they have different cultures with different social histories, which means they can have quite different perspectives.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.
She won’t make it to my birthday (January 4, which she needs to get to to avoid being shortest serving British PM)
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
How does an individual company become less neoliberal? Reinvestment of profits is still well down, most still goes to exec salaries and shareholders.
ska invita
back on the other side
okay i hear that...this kind of thing is interesting:
...Max Hastings saying Keir Starmer is being too timid! I guess thats what you are talking about with neoliberalisers trying to mitigate the damage.
I still cant see any reversal in direction, even if more breaks are successfully applied. Its the nature of the beast
Well, we'll all have to be terribly brave about that.
Well, we'll all have to be terribly brave about that.
I spose one idea is the grey suits just front up to Trus and tell her, go or we'll change the rules to allow a NCV.
She'll say no, of course. Why would she just resign, now. Clearly has no understanding of her limits, no ability to read the room, is apparently having quite a fun time of it all.
I think more likely, U turns, farse continues at a slower pace, the grey men trying to manage her through the next couple of years.
Delicious bind for the Tory MPs as noted. 18 months of degredation, hoping the cost of living crisis abates, getting it in the neck from constituants, then the boot. Or bring it all down now, look ridiculous, still get it in the neck from constituents, possibly get the boot earlier.
The smart thing on probability terms is to ditch Trus now by any means and hope someone else can turn it around. i.e. Ridiculous and possibly dead vs dead.
She'll say no, of course. Why would she just resign, now. Clearly has no understanding of her limits, no ability to read the room, is apparently having quite a fun time of it all.
I think more likely, U turns, farse continues at a slower pace, the grey men trying to manage her through the next couple of years.
Delicious bind for the Tory MPs as noted. 18 months of degredation, hoping the cost of living crisis abates, getting it in the neck from constituants, then the boot. Or bring it all down now, look ridiculous, still get it in the neck from constituents, possibly get the boot earlier.
The smart thing on probability terms is to ditch Trus now by any means and hope someone else can turn it around. i.e. Ridiculous and possibly dead vs dead.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
If (and its a pretty big if) they do move to ditch Truss it will be via a "palace coup" with a pre-agreed leader (and probably chancellor) who will have to have the backing of a decent marjotiy of tory mps. So a Mourdant/Sunack double ticket would seem to be the most likely outcome - they got the most votes in the first round from mps and would both appear to live in the reality based world. Their job would be basically damage limitation prior to the next election. However they would still be having to deal with ongoing civil war in their own ranks.
Its probably more likely that the talk of plots and coups is about letting Truss know that she needs to obey the consensus opinion of mp's - or else. So ditch the budget, sack kwarting, stop being mental. Prime minister in name only.
Then maybe she's left in place to take the flack for election disaster.
But - whatever they want to happen and whatever they do - more chaos, fuck ups and damage is still very much the most likely outcome.
Its probably more likely that the talk of plots and coups is about letting Truss know that she needs to obey the consensus opinion of mp's - or else. So ditch the budget, sack kwarting, stop being mental. Prime minister in name only.
Then maybe she's left in place to take the flack for election disaster.
But - whatever they want to happen and whatever they do - more chaos, fuck ups and damage is still very much the most likely outcome.
In terms of the demands it is making of regulators and governments, and the targets it voluntarily signs up to.
Which companies were calling for corporation tax to be frozen, for example? Or look at corporate response to culture risk and diversity -- they are undertaking all kinds of voluntary targets, because there is a perception that there is value to be obtained from this. Look at climate change targets too -- a lot of companies are going well beyond legislative requirements, and this is really not just about a perception of consumer demand. In my area -- insurance -- the government keep saying that they are going to loosen Solvency II (the EU regulation of insurance) following Brexit and the insurers keep asking them not to.
All this is not because corporations believe in equality and sharing wealth. It's because there is an increasing belief amongst the individuals running companies that well-regulated marketplaces and cultural contexts help to improve profit. That's a classical liberal mindset, not a neoliberal one.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Hmm, neoliberalism has no problems with regulation as long as it allows markets to operate ‘properly’ and it is in the interests of major players to block new entrants (via regs if need be). Likewise voluntary targets are absolutely part of the game. I do agree tho that a lot of bosses/companies are seeing the last fifty years economic policies are no longer working for them.
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