Living without central heating this winter?

[gentlegreen]

Part of it is motivation. If you're on a small boat or up a mountain because you've chosen to have a bit of challenging recreation, you can be a bit gung-ho when going without heat. You put on all your expensive high tech layers and congratulate yourself because you're not dying. Not many people can sustain that enthusiasm for hardship when they're at home. Although there are one or two in this thread.....

Yes it's mostly psychology.
And moving a bit.

 

[David Clapson]

Set up a large arctic grade tent in your living room. You can always take it with you when you move.

Actually that's germane to my other motive for this experiment, which is that I want to live in a campervan without using much fuel. I'm imagining wintering in southern europe and (possibly) not installing one of those special campervan heaters. But there will inevitably be cold spells, perhaps if I need to nip back to London in January for some reason. So I'm wondering what strategy would be best. The vehicle is quite small, similar size to a VW bus. So I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to insulate it to arctic tent standard. Also the (very hot) cat will be with me.

 

[Riklet]

My landlord is beyond incompetent. She shares the freehold with a few others, and sometimes she exercises her right to get the common parts maintained. She lives in Paris and never inspects the work or meets the contractors. She gets 3 quotes, chooses the cheapest one, and that's it, she's done her duty. Then she falls out with the contractor, argues about the bill and they disappear, leaving all kinds of horrors.

When I moved in the kitchen wall had a pair of 1 ft square holes in it. The kitchen had been fitted over the holes. You can't see the holes from any vantage points outside the building. It took me years to work out where the draught was coming from. I never suspected enormous holes in the outside wall. No wonder there's a giant crack in the building and all the flats below are damp. By then I'd discovered that getting her to fix things would only make them worse, so I just filled half the fucking kitchen with expanding foam.

We had all the repointing and window frames done. I sent her photos of the worst bits, but she fell out with the contractor before they got to the very worst bit, the north facing walls at the top, i.e. my flat. Some of my window frames are now mostly filler, the rest still have that nasty dark green paint which nobody's used since the '50s. The mortar between the inner and outer brick courses has chunks missing. The bathroom's sash window has to be opened very gingerly in case the glass falls out. I could go on. She even managed to pay the £30k bill to a push payment fraudster who hacked her email. After that she gave me notice and put the flat on the market on some shitty self-service property site where she wrote the blurb, describing the flat (2 beds on Rushcroft Road) as a penthouse, worth £925k. That didn't work, so we agreed a small rent increase in exchange for me continuing to live here.

You could write a letter to all the freeholders firmly requesting they insulate the loft asap. And get all the flats to sign it.

IDK if theres any pressure that can be put on landlords to do this yet. In the future they are talking about making property level C on the EPC minimum after 2026 to rent. You could mention this and say it'll benefit them yada yada.

Are you able to get up there and just do it yerself? fuck all this ecogrant bullshit its just designed to pump money into shoddy companies with badly trained bods. Roof insulation is dead cheap. £25 each from all the neighbours and you could do the whole loft! I would probs just do it.

 

[geminisnake]

I’m looking at putting in a sold fuel burner in the front room and only using that.

the rest of your home will be freezing, I know this from when we've had power cuts(the leccy pump heats the radiators) It took 3 days for the house to reheat after the outage last November.
We don't have central heating and I will not be doing without a fire, feck that!

 

[Sasaferrato]

And people with asthma and the like are susceptible, as are ..... older people

I must say that it is with deep reluctance that I have to accept that I'm on the edge of being an 'older person'. I do feel the cold now, which I didn't in years past.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I must say that it is with deep reluctance that I have to accept that I'm on the edge of being an 'older person'. I do feel the cold now, which I didn't in years past.

On the edge?

 

[Riklet]

I have a stingy friend who's a doctor who put 800mm of insulation in his loft (victorian flat/house) and then basically didnt use the heating all winter. He was convinced it was warm. 17 degrees is pretty good when it costs nowt but it's not fucking warm when youre sitting around all day!

IMO its also v important to weigh up any structural issues or damp from not heating a home. these could be a lot more than just using the heating 2-3h a day, even with the bills increasing.

 

[cesare]

Would be fun to add a poll with age ranges.

 

[David Clapson]

I have a stingy friend who's a doctor who put 800mm of insulation in his loft (victorian flat/house) and then basically didnt use the heating all winter. He was convinced it was warm. 17 degrees is pretty good when it costs nowt but it's not fucking warm when youre sitting around all day!

IMO its also v important to weigh up any structural issues or damp from not heating a home. these could be a lot more than just using the heating 2-3h a day, even with the bills increasing.

17 C? 62.6 F ? That's NOT cold!

 

[Puddy_Tat]

It had a system of hot air blown through ducts under the floor, into the rooms via vents in the floor. The heat came from a kind of central, electric storage heater. It never really worked very well and so heating in reality was mainly a collection of electric bar heaters. No mains gas anywhere nearby.

I had similar but fed from a gas boiler at previous house (built early 80s.) It wasn't that great, and the cats worked out that the warmest place in the house was about 3/4 of the way up the stairs - i knew it was cold if they ended up there...

current flat clearly had similar at one time, but it had been replaced with conventional gas central heating / radiators before i moved here.

 

[cesare]

I have a stingy friend who's a doctor who put 800mm of insulation in his loft (victorian flat/house) and then basically didnt use the heating all winter. He was convinced it was warm. 17 degrees is pretty good when it costs nowt but it's not fucking warm when youre sitting around all day!

IMO its also v important to weigh up any structural issues or damp from not heating a home. these could be a lot more than just using the heating 2-3h a day, even with the bills increasing.

17 even degrees is fine even if WFH. 17 degrees with various icy draughts/blasts, not so much.

 

[Riklet]

17 C? 62.6 F ? That's NOT cold!

You wont die unless youre old and infirm but its hardly warm. No way I could live somewhere thats less than 18-19 degrees for months on end.

 

[WouldBe]

the rest of your home will be freezing, I know this from when we've had power cuts(the leccy pump heats the radiators) It took 3 days for the house to reheat after the outage last November.
We don't have central heating and I will not be doing without a fire, feck that!

Before I had my thermal store put in the wood burning boiler stove could gravity feed all the upstairs radiators if there was a power cut.

 

[cesare]

You wont die unless youre old and infirm but its hardly warm. No way I could live somewhere thats less than 18-19 degrees for months on end.

I accept I run cold but no way 18 degrees is cold enough to require heating ,(imo)

R U a Cactus

 

[kittyP]

17 C? 62.6 F ? That's NOT cold!

It can feel it though, to some people.

 

[existentialist]

Actually that's germane to my other motive for this experiment, which is that I want to live in a campervan without using much fuel. I'm imagining wintering in southern europe and (possibly) not installing one of those special campervan heaters. But there will inevitably be cold spells, perhaps if I need to nip back to London in January for some reason. So I'm wondering what strategy would be best. The vehicle is quite small, similar size to a VW bus. So I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to insulate it to arctic tent standard. Also the (very hot) cat will be with me.

If you think condensation's going to be a problem in an airtight flat (spoiler: it is), that is NOTHING to the problem it is going to be in an airtight van, assuming you can get the insulation anywhere near up to snuff to ensure that a "building" made of steel is going to be self-sustainably warm.

 

[kittyP]

We have to be careful of telling others that they are wrong for experiencing certain temperatures differently to ones self.

My bedroom radiator is never on (unless it's for frost protection if below 0° and I quick blast a fan heater to warm the room to dry washing) but I'm lucky that I'm someone who runs reasonably warm and I am lucky that I have a great feather duvet and I'm lucky that I like sleeping in a cold room.

But when it comes to my living room/kitchen it does get really cold in the evenings in winter when watching TV, even when (as said) Im quite a warm person and I've got fleecy trousers and zip up and cozy dressing gown and slippers and blanket, and that's with the heating on for a few hours here and there.

For some people living without heating just adds more misery to an already miserable existence.
Especially those in bad housing already and with disabilities, mental health problems etc.

 

[Leafster]

I had similar but fed from a gas boiler at previous house (built early 80s.) It wasn't that great, and the cats worked out that the warmest place in the house was about 3/4 of the way up the stairs - i knew it was cold if they ended up there...

current flat clearly had similar at one time, but it had been replaced with conventional gas central heating / radiators before i moved here.

I had gas-fired warm air heating in my flat. I lived there for 25 years and I loved it. It took me aged to get used to wet radiators in my current house. I still think warm air heating is better. There’s no problem with great big radiators taking up wall space and restricting where you can put your furniture. Warm air heating heats the rooms up quicker and the air filters in the system keep the air cleaner. The circulation air also reduces the risk of condensation.

Not that I had it, but their was an option to include air conditioning in the unit which would have been great with the recent extreme heat event we’ve just had.

The downside is very few heating engineers in the UK actually understand it so servicing it was a bit problematic. It think that’s why it was often replaced with wet systems which actually have more problems.

 

[David Clapson]

If you think condensation's going to be a problem in an airtight flat (spoiler: it is), that is NOTHING to the problem it is going to be in an airtight van, assuming you can get the insulation anywhere near up to snuff to ensure that a "building" made of steel is going to be self-sustainably warm.

Yes, I read that somewhere. Some say the answer is to insulate the van with wool.

 

[Riklet]

I accept I run cold but no way 18 degrees is cold enough to require heating ,(imo)

R U a Cactus

I am definitely a cactus. I lived in Spain for 8 years!

And id rather be poor than cold for sure. Good job I guess cos im definitely going to be this winter :/ Need to finish the roof insulation I started months ago.....

 

[cesare]

I am definitely a cactus. I lived in Spain for 8 years!

And id rather be poor than cold for sure. Good job I guess cos im definitely going to be this winter :/ Need to finish the roof insulation I started months ago.....

After living in Spain are you now acclimatised to the UK? Does your inner core temp change with exercise? Are you able to do that exercise thing?

Omg, sorry about the interrogation

 

[teuchter]

Yes, I read that somewhere. Some say the answer is to insulate the van with wool.

That's not going to help because even if humidity can get through the wool to done extent, it's still going to meet the steel.

You can do some "buffering" with lining materials that can take up some of the moisture when it's at its peak and then release it slowly at other times but really the correct answer is controlled ventilation.

Dunno if you can get a heat-exchanger vent fan that would be small enough to work in a van.

 

[existentialist]

Yes, I read that somewhere. Some say the answer is to insulate the van with wool.

You're going to need to do a LOT more than that, if you want your van to be passively warmed. Off the top of my head -

• You are going to need to create an absolutely impregnable vapour barrier between your interior and the structure of the vehicle - not just because of insulation, but because any moisture that makes it into the insulation space and thereby in contact with the body of the vehicle WILL corrode it. Fast.
• Everything inside the vehicle needs to be insulated from the bodywork of the vehicle. Everything. Any exposed metalwork will suck the warmth of your interior out into the freezing wastes beyond.
• Door seals are fine for normal daily use, but they are never going to be good enough to prevent draughts enough to leach out your passive heat. You'll need to beef those up, and keep them well maintained.
• You'd better seal off the cab area (with a well-insulated barrier), because the windscreen will be like having a gaping cave mouth open, as far as heat loss is concerned. Also, the driver's cab is almost certainly going to leak heat anyway - there's no way of insulating that, what with all the various bits coming through the bulkhead, gear linkage, etc.
• Floor. Underneath you is effectively a big radiator. Your floor will need to be well isolated from that, with something that's at a minimum equivalent to 50mm of Celotex, or whatever that works out in wool. Your floor needs to also be completely isolated, heat-wise, from the body - wooden battens (with the insulation between them) are traditional.
• Windows - most campervan windows are fairly basic plastic jobs. They're going to leak heat. You're almost certainly going to need to have top notch ones for a passively heated van, and they're going to have to be mounted in a way that ensures all your insulation goes right up to them - any uninsulated (or weakly insulated) bits between your main interior insulation is going to create a) a condensation zone, and b) a heat leak.

However, you also need to be aware that a van is a lot smaller than a home, and (at least potentially) capable of being hermetically sealed. You might need to think about some kind of airflow, which is of course going to negate all your efforts in regard to heat, but being warm is no good if you're suffocating yourself. And that's true in spades if you're considering doing any cooking inside the vehicle.

 

[WouldBe]

I had gas-fired warm air heating in my flat. I lived there for 25 years and I loved it. It took me aged to get used to wet radiators in my current house. I still think warm air heating is better. There’s no problem with great big radiators taking up wall space and restricting where you can put your furniture. Warm air heating heats the rooms up quicker and the air filters in the system keep the air cleaner. The circulation air also reduces the risk of condensation.

Not that I had it, but their was an option to include air conditioning in the unit which would have been great with the recent extreme heat event we’ve just had.

The downside is very few heating engineers in the UK actually understand it so servicing it was a bit problematic. It think that’s why it was often replaced with wet systems which actually have more problems.

My gran had air heating in her sheltered accommodation. It used to leave filthy marks on the ceiling above the outlet vents.

 

[davesgcr]

Remember seeing people collecting coal from Seaham beach back in the day. Fuel poverty has no doubt always been a problem.

In South Wales - coal picking of slag heaps was obvious in the 1960's , - the older tips had a high ratio of coal in the shale , as pre WW2 , miners were only paid for large coal , so anything smaller than an apple say went into the waste. When tip clearances post Aberfan occurred, about 20% of the tips were recovered for sale. A fact I have recently pointed out to people to encourage recycling as they (the Welsh Assembly Government) plan to do some more tip clearances. That fuel can be used for steam railways amongst other things.

Anyway - 40 years on , I can declare my father used to "gift" some of his surplus coal to needy folk. Against the rules , but many miners did so as all part of the community.

 

[jontz01]

Long Johns, 2 pairs of wool socks and a good hat permanently.

Lived in a bus with barely any insulation for a few years. The insides of the windows used to freeze. It was good, I enjoyed it more than the heat.

 

[Sasaferrato]

On the edge?

As you well know, you are not that far behind me.

 

[Mumbles274]

Sorry, not read the thread but my boiler broke down and I didn't have running hot water or central heating for 2 years. Oil heaters were fine, we had an electric shower and a dishwasher.

Barely even noticed if it was cold in the end

 

[cupid_stunt]

As you well know, you are not that far behind me.

I am over 10 years behind. and I'll never catch-up on you.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I had gas-fired warm air heating in my flat. I lived there for 25 years and I loved it. It took me aged to get used to wet radiators in my current house. I still think warm air heating is better. There’s no problem with great big radiators taking up wall space and restricting where you can put your furniture. Warm air heating heats the rooms up quicker and the air filters in the system keep the air cleaner. The circulation air also reduces the risk of condensation.

Not that I had it, but their was an option to include air conditioning in the unit which would have been great with the recent extreme heat event we’ve just had.

The downside is very few heating engineers in the UK actually understand it so servicing it was a bit problematic. It think that’s why it was often replaced with wet systems which actually have more problems.

When we moved in here it had blow air heating from a gas boiler, it wasn't particularly good.

The really big drawback with blow air is that when you switch it off, the temperature in the room starts to drop immediately, whereas with radiators, the heat last for another couple of hours at least.